It's been ages since Steve and I recapped a show together, but we're betting all of our paper boats on a new show coming to HBO Max called Welcome to Derry. In this episode, we get ready with a tailgate special of show related news.
We talk about what we know about the show and review what we know about the town of Derry and all of its sordid history. It's our way of getting ourselves (and hopefully you) hyped for what's to come. The first episode comes out this Sunday, October 26, so think of this as your cram session if you don't have time to re-watched the movies or books.
Want to keep up with our recaps? Subscribe and watch for our Thursday morning releases to get caught up on the conversation before the next episode comes out.
Steve Barnes is guitarist for stoner metal band Introvoid, and also plays guitar for the cover band Rebecca Crow. All of Steve's stuff can be found at Sweetchildoftime.com.
Lindsey Dunn is a film critic with membership in both NC Film Critics and Southeastern Film Critics. She loves all things Cobra Kai, Netflix Dark, indie horror, and any stories about complicated relationships. You can find her at 1ofmystories.com and most social channels @1ofmystories.
Transcript of show
00:00:02.06
Steve Barnes
Welcome to Welcome to Derry. It is me, Steve Barnes from Sweet Child of Time, and I'm here with Lindsey Dunn from 1 of my stories. We're going to be talking about our upcoming series, Welcome to Derry.
00:00:16.39
Steve Barnes
Lindsey, take it from here. What's up, Lindsey? Ahoy there and all that stuff.
00:00:21.20
lindsey
Ahoy, Steve! if it feels a little on It feels a little odd to be saying ahoy for Welcome to Derry, but we'll go with that.
00:00:29.48
Steve Barnes
Oh, yeah. Well, mean, it's they do have a dock there. So it is like a town that will have boats and you might like greet a sailor as he comes into the port, the dairy dock or whatever.
00:00:36.45
lindsey
Yeah.
00:00:43.20
Steve Barnes
So maybe, i don't know, maybe we'll think of something better for next time.
00:00:45.68
lindsey
Yeah. Yeah. Well, ahoy to you! But yes, you know, it's been a while since we talked, Steve.
00:00:54.65
Steve Barnes
Yeah, it has. Like, ah well, the last time we really talked is when you came to my town, not dairy.
00:01:01.50
lindsey
hu
00:01:01.59
Steve Barnes
I'm from the town of Richmond, Virginia. And that's the last time we really talked. um Is that what you're talking about? That's been like a month and a half, maybe two months.
00:01:07.57
lindsey
Yeah, we had a, we, well, we had an in-person visit. I think that was in the month of September. So, um yes, so that actually happened, but I was thinking,
00:01:15.72
Steve Barnes
Okay. Okay.
00:01:19.59
lindsey
You know, it's been a while since we podcasted together. I think our last podcast conversation, because that's our real that's our real friendship is based on talking to each other through microphones is, you know, the last time we had a podcast together, it was to discuss the movie here.
00:01:25.43
Steve Barnes
Yep.
00:01:31.73
Steve Barnes
yeah That's right.
00:01:40.23
Steve Barnes
Okay, that's right. I was thinking it might have been his three daughters, um which has a tie-in to Welcome to Derry because one of the actors is in both of those movies and show. But yeah, we did Tom Hanks here, the gang from Forrest Gump.
00:01:54.14
Steve Barnes
We didn't love that one. I hope we're going to love Welcome to Derry a lot more. I have a feeling we will.
00:02:00.20
lindsey
Right. But it's been, guess my point is that it's been a while since we recapped a show together.
00:02:06.42
Steve Barnes
Oh, yeah.
00:02:07.35
lindsey
Right. You know, we have, if you've been listening to either one of us for a while, which of course you are, you are loyal listeners that are, it's only loyal listeners that are tuning in, but we have recapped the show dark.
00:02:08.12
Steve Barnes
Yes.
00:02:14.38
Steve Barnes
hu
00:02:16.71
Steve Barnes
Absolutely.
00:02:22.66
Steve Barnes
Yes, that was the big one.
00:02:23.33
lindsey
We've, we've, we have all also separately. recapped 1899 with different people. And then we had moved to 100 years of solitude, you know, so,
00:02:31.31
Steve Barnes
Yep.
00:02:36.33
Steve Barnes
That was some intense conversation too. I liked it.
00:02:40.86
lindsey
so this is, this is, we're kind of returning to form. I feel this and all right.
00:02:44.55
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
00:02:46.22
lindsey
So what is this show? Okay. So it's welcome to dairy season one, which is a set in 1962. Now,
00:02:56.74
lindsey
now If you are, you know, probably you're familiar with this, ah listeners, but this is based on the Stephen King universe.
00:03:08.38
lindsey
And the town of Derry has a dark and violent history where bad things happen every 27 years.
00:03:15.56
Steve Barnes
or so ish.
00:03:15.95
lindsey
It will be, yeah, yeah, time is can can be fluid. You know, time's a flat circle. um So it's eight episodes. Released on Sunday evenings.
00:03:27.67
lindsey
It's going to release on HBO Max starting October 26th, which is coming up this week. And we will be planning to drop weekly recaps on the Thursday after each episode.
00:03:41.99
lindsey
Lord willing.
00:03:42.21
Steve Barnes
Yes, that's right.
00:03:42.71
lindsey
Yes.
00:03:44.32
Steve Barnes
um I'm going to interrupt you real quick and say that that's going to be due thanks to a third person who's involved in our podcast here too.
00:03:45.79
lindsey
Yes.
00:03:52.41
Steve Barnes
That's ah James McCollum from like the Marshland Media. He's going to the one who's going to doing this editing for us. So he's going to be but really on the gun to get these released in time.
00:04:02.94
Steve Barnes
So he's probably listening to this right now too, like sweating. So we got to give a big thanks to him for like being part of this and helping us get it on so quickly after each episode.
00:04:13.12
Steve Barnes
Cool.
00:04:14.30
lindsey
Get your perspiration reducing shorts on, James. where We are really appreciate you stepping up. um So one thing I wanted to mention here about the kind of just introduction to the show before we go further is that the three seasons are going to be taking place in 1962. That's this season, season one.
00:04:39.42
lindsey
then 1935 will be season two, and season three will be 1908.
00:04:41.64
Steve Barnes
Oh. OK. Mm-hmm.
00:04:45.22
lindsey
nineteen ah eight So we have our three years already established of what is going to be the time periods.
00:04:47.25
Steve Barnes
okay
00:04:53.20
lindsey
Now, before we go further into the plot of the show, i thought it might be interesting or relevant to think about why we are doing this in the first place. as we ah We always like to stop and ask,
00:05:08.82
lindsey
why are we doing this show? Like, why did it catch our interest? And there's a couple things that I can think of. So I'll let you start that, Steve. Why do you, what are some reasons we might want to recap this show?
00:05:18.53
Steve Barnes
Okay.
00:05:22.31
Steve Barnes
Okay, I'll correct you. We don't ask ourselves that. You ask us that because... The main reason that I do these shows, that I agree to the show, is is because i I love them. And I want to recap and be part of a show that either I love or I think I'm going to love.
00:05:41.70
lindsey
Mm-hmm.
00:05:41.67
Steve Barnes
I took some chances with 1899 and Time Bandits, 100 Years of Solitude. And now with this, because we're going into it, we don't know what the show is going to be like. But it's something that catches my interest.
00:05:49.95
lindsey
Right.
00:05:52.24
Steve Barnes
Second, for me, it has to have something to do with the concept of time to fit in with the theme of my show. So, of course, this is ah something that happens like every 27 ish years.
00:05:58.54
lindsey
Mm-hmm.
00:06:03.22
lindsey
Mm-hmm.
00:06:03.95
Steve Barnes
um Twenty seven is my lucky number and it always has been like that's my birth date as well.
00:06:04.10
lindsey
Right.
00:06:08.91
Steve Barnes
Seven, twenty seven, seventy two. So that's special to me. um And Stephen King was the first author that I really got into when I was a kid. This would be like early to late 80s.
00:06:22.06
Steve Barnes
So I was on board with all these books. The moment they were released, you know, I had the original copy of it, got it as soon as it was released because I was a huge fan of him. I was too young. Me and all these other kids were way too young to be reading this stuff. But we were.
00:06:38.53
Steve Barnes
So for me, that's three. um I think for me, that's three solid reasons because I love Stephen King. I'm looking forward to watching this show with my wife and because it is related to time.
00:06:49.71
Steve Barnes
So what are my stories? Why did Lindsay Dunn, LD, choose to ah check out Welcome to Dairy and want to do a recap?
00:06:59.30
lindsey
Well, you left me some reason, so I'm glad about that, Steve.
00:07:02.53
Steve Barnes
Okay.
00:07:04.56
lindsey
So, well, one thing i think we should mention is, well, this, I was already planning watching the show, but I wouldn't necessarily have planned to recap it because that takes a different level of effort, right?
00:07:18.24
lindsey
um But we know, one thing we know or think we know is that in season two, which is going to be our 1935 episode,
00:07:27.68
Steve Barnes
yeah
00:07:28.50
lindsey
Barenbo Odar and Yantafrize have been posting on Instagram that they are in l LA working with Andy Muschietti. And if you look at the IMDB credits, you are not going to see that because supposedly he's not coming on board until season two.
00:07:45.04
Steve Barnes
Right.
00:07:46.30
lindsey
So we wanted to sort of get ahead of the game. We can't just start recapping season two. I mean, we could, but we might as well be completionist about it and start with with season one.
00:07:56.00
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
00:07:59.16
lindsey
But I do think also this show is very much on par because of the the time issue, but not just that it has something to do with time, but it has something to do with cycles.
00:08:10.78
lindsey
And that's a repeating thing from Dark, right? That there's the 33-year cycle.
00:08:13.96
Steve Barnes
Right. Oh, yeah.
00:08:16.16
lindsey
Now this, we've got the 27-year cycle or the 30-year cycle if you're looking at um the the adaptation, the um
00:08:16.29
Steve Barnes
Okay.
00:08:19.10
Steve Barnes
Right.
00:08:27.63
lindsey
the earlier adaptation of the mini series, they talked about a 30 year cycle. And in the book and in this Muschietti's universe, he's doing, going back to the 27 year cycle.
00:08:32.28
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm.
00:08:38.98
lindsey
So we got the idea of cycles and things repeating themselves, almost like a fatality. So it's got some, you know, it reminds me of dark in that way too, that um these are things that we've we've seen done well. So I think we're going to be able to recognize if this is done well in the show as well.
00:08:59.84
Steve Barnes
Sure. Yeah. And, um, this show has like the blessing of the man himself. Stephen King has like seen the first episode and, uh, that's one of the tabs that I have open here is what Stephen King has said about what he's seen so far. He said the show is, um, amazing and terrifying given the show, his enthusiastic approval.
00:09:21.41
Steve Barnes
um His shared positive reaction on threads is a strong endorsement significantly because Stephen King has often been critical of his adaptions in the past.
00:09:33.03
Steve Barnes
So if he's saying this one rules, then on this podcast, we're proud to say yes, King. okay
00:09:44.93
lindsey
Sure, we'll do that. We'll do that. No king, but Stephen King. Nice.
00:09:49.08
Steve Barnes
No kings, but Stephen King.
00:09:49.67
lindsey
Okay.
00:09:50.58
Steve Barnes
Okay.
00:09:50.73
lindsey
Okay.
00:09:50.80
Steve Barnes
And our king, the king of kings. Okay.
00:09:55.39
lindsey
Okay. So let's now move into what we know about the plot of the show, or again, think we know.
00:10:00.81
Steve Barnes
Oh, yeah.
00:10:02.37
lindsey
The published information, they're keeping it wisely, pretty close to the cuff, which I always appreciate when you're not giving away all the secrets and what's going to happen.
00:10:11.58
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm.
00:10:14.10
lindsey
But we do have a couple of things to go on. We have the ah new episode, the pilot description has been updated IMDb.
00:10:24.76
Steve Barnes
yep
00:10:25.25
lindsey
And then we also knew some of the characters that are were going to show up in the show and that being familiar. So the pilot episode, ah Steve's raising his hand. What would you like to say, Steve?
00:10:41.20
Steve Barnes
Yeah, I wanted to say that um it has been pretty well known that a lot of the plot points of these episodes and seasons are going to be based on the interlude chapters of the book It.
00:10:55.78
Steve Barnes
Now, there's five interlude chapters, and those chapters, they go into great detail about the black spot, um the Bradley gang, the silver dollar, all these incidents as he goes into like a first can firsthand account, usually from like some old timer from dairy.
00:11:13.60
Steve Barnes
um So we have like beat by beat. When you read these chapters, it's like you're watching an episode of television. So I'm sure it's going to be fantastic stuff. But from what I understand, this is all going to be based on those dairy interlude chapters.
00:11:26.40
Steve Barnes
That's why I was waving my hand wildly. Yeah.
00:11:29.31
lindsey
Mm-hmm. Well, yes, we, yes, the, we know about the plot of the show that it's based on some of that history that has been dropped before. You're absolutely right.
00:11:42.01
lindsey
um I think specifically what I was thinking about was that we know that this is very much revolving around the family of Mike Hanlon, who's one of our losers.
00:11:53.71
Steve Barnes
Oh, yeah. Uh-oh.
00:11:56.41
lindsey
um But, so I'm going to get to that. that piece of information in a minute, but I did want to read this, you know, summary from the IMDB that four months after the classmate's sudden discipline disappearance, so kids have gone missing again, big surprise, um Teddy, Phil, Lily, and Ronnie vowed to figure out why so many kids have gone missing in Derry.
00:12:14.10
Steve Barnes
buto
00:12:21.69
lindsey
So we have the four main kids, um you know, named. um
00:12:29.37
Steve Barnes
Were the male names again? Okay.
00:12:32.45
lindsey
Teddy and Phil. Now, the the Mike's father, Will Hanlon, is not amongst that list of four.
00:12:43.97
Steve Barnes
Right, not yet. And there's other kids that are named as well.
00:12:45.61
lindsey
Yeah.
00:12:48.45
Steve Barnes
Like I know that there's gonna be a kid named Rich, which made me think about Richie, of course, but there's gonna be a kid named Rich and there's gonna be a kid named Ray.
00:12:54.35
lindsey
Right.
00:12:58.07
Steve Barnes
So I wonder, like we have these four in the pilot and these are probably like the four leads I assume, but I wonder if they'll be joined by three other friends along the way, because Stephen King always made such a huge point about how seven is like a mystical number that the entity of it kind of feared is like a magical, like good, like white magic number.
00:13:24.92
Steve Barnes
um And I know that you and I had like, you know, through text messages, we had discussed how, you know, there's some, there's some angry Redditors out there who don't like some of the changes that are going to be happening. Right.
00:13:37.00
Steve Barnes
And they're saying, you know, there should be seven kids in the losers club. ah I really have a strong feeling that this four is going to be joined up by a few more.
00:13:51.29
lindsey
Well, that's that's possible. You're getting a little ahead of me, Steve.
00:13:55.23
Steve Barnes
Oh, no, we knew this would happen.
00:13:57.41
lindsey
Yes. I'm back. up where Right now, I'm just kind of dealing with the known information about... I didn't i forgot about Rich. He's in the trailer.
00:14:08.38
lindsey
um But I was kind of going off of the plot.
00:14:08.59
Steve Barnes
Yes.
00:14:10.97
lindsey
um And then there's this Major Leroy Hanlon who arrives at Derry Air Force Base.
00:14:18.44
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm.
00:14:18.89
lindsey
Now, Leroy Hanlon, that name I recognized because that is the grandfather of Mike Hanlon. So we have Leroy and Charlotte Hanlon.
00:14:26.71
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:14:28.75
lindsey
We know they are going to be in this series. They're both in the trailer. And they're the grandparents of Mike Hanlon. Their son, whose name is Will, that's Mike's father. And we have ah Dick Halloran as a character also Now, you probably recognize that name, Steve DeCallerin.
00:14:52.34
Steve Barnes
Yeah, he was on, well, he's name dropped in the book it as well because he was participant in the black spot incident, but yeah, he's the shining dude. He's the dude that had the shining, which is directly related to, um, dairy main and the whole Mac reverse and it itself because Dick Halloran in the shining also has these powers that he's able to access that same Mac reverse.
00:15:11.63
lindsey
Mm-hmm.
00:15:19.12
Steve Barnes
Um,
00:15:19.49
lindsey
Now, as far as you know, is is the black spot ever referenced The Shining?
00:15:29.60
Steve Barnes
No, he only, he talks about how he was a cook in the army and that's kind of like his identity. And so that's the same role he plays in the black spot where they open up a kitchen and he's the guy in the back, you know, cooking the burgers and stuff.
00:15:47.19
lindsey
Yeah. Yeah, he is...
00:15:48.56
Steve Barnes
And
00:15:49.56
lindsey
He's running the kitchen of the the hotel.
00:15:52.83
Steve Barnes
well, in in the, um, in the book, yes, he's, he's, I'm sorry. What was that? He's running the kitchen where?
00:16:00.12
lindsey
he's He's running the kitchen at the Overlook Hotel um from The Shining.
00:16:04.79
Steve Barnes
Oh, yes.
00:16:06.00
lindsey
So that that makes sense because you mentioned he was serving in the kitchen in the military. So he kept...
00:16:11.75
Steve Barnes
He can't get away from that food. know.
00:16:15.67
lindsey
Because, i I mean, obviously he's an iconic character from The Shining.
00:16:15.99
Steve Barnes
A cup.
00:16:19.69
lindsey
But I think it's interesting that um now you you said he's name dropped
00:16:19.92
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
00:16:27.48
lindsey
You said you said his what did you say that he's Dick Halloran was mentioned in.
00:16:33.22
Steve Barnes
The book, It.
00:16:34.70
lindsey
and the book, it which I yeah, yeah, so Steve and I Steve kind of revisited the book and plus he's read the book many times.
00:16:34.76
Steve Barnes
during during the retelling of the black spot.
00:16:44.23
lindsey
I've actually only read the book. one time in its entirety. I tried to read it when i was a kid and my mom found it under my bed and to return it to the library. so I didn't, I didn't read it until five years ago.
00:16:54.49
Steve Barnes
She should have. It's true.
00:17:00.62
lindsey
um But I, I revisited, i rewatched the movies. So yes, I did not get to hear Halloran's name mentioned in the, in the book like Steve did.
00:17:14.88
Steve Barnes
See, we're the perfect pair to do this because I didn't rewatch the movies and I i had some questions for you about some of the ah the beats of how the movie ended and how the the battle of Chud or whatever went down.
00:17:26.97
Steve Barnes
The ritual of Chud, excuse me.
00:17:27.67
lindsey
ah
00:17:29.22
Steve Barnes
um I also wanted to say in the trailer, I have a couple more notes from the trailer too of what we...
00:17:29.41
lindsey
Right.
00:17:34.27
Steve Barnes
get to see, because you mentioned some of the names of people, ah some more names that I saw on those missing posters, because it shows like missing posters.
00:17:38.08
lindsey
Right.
00:17:42.72
Steve Barnes
And um I saw the names Clemens. I saw Lynn Jones and I saw the last name Uris, which of course jumps out at me because of Stan Uris is one of the losers club.
00:17:53.83
Steve Barnes
And apparently like one of his relatives went missing at some point. And another character I saw that Richie from the Loser's Globe very happy to see, the Paul Bunyan statue.
00:18:06.57
Steve Barnes
ah saw I saw that in the trailer too.
00:18:08.22
lindsey
yeah Yeah, the Paul Bunyan statue, that's, it's very interesting because that's because that's actually something from, you know, Maine where Stephen King grew up and also it relates to the fact that Derry started out as beaver camp.
00:18:27.21
lindsey
um So did you want to, you, did you want to talk about those things now or later? You said the questions, we're going to do that later.
00:18:35.43
Steve Barnes
Which things? Which questions?
00:18:37.02
lindsey
You said you had questions for me about the way, the ritual of Chud.
00:18:39.19
Steve Barnes
Oh, but about the movie.
00:18:41.61
lindsey
Okay. Maybe we'll talk about that when we talk about history.
00:18:42.22
Steve Barnes
Yeah, I was... Yeah, I did think this was the right time to do that.
00:18:45.07
lindsey
Okay. Great. Okay. So my Callan's family, just to kind of,
00:18:50.23
Steve Barnes
Yes.
00:18:51.03
lindsey
I want to review what I know about Mike Halen's family and then beyond what I just said already. and then Steve, if you have anything to fill in, that would be great.
00:18:58.61
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm.
00:19:00.13
lindsey
So what we know is that Will, ah which is Mike's father again, he witnessed Pennywise as a giant bird after a racist group called the Main Legion of White Decency burned the Black Spot Club down.
00:19:17.05
lindsey
In the book, this happens in 1930. In the 2017 movie, it happens in 1962, which gets it Andy Muschietti kind of messing with the timing a little bit.
00:19:28.36
Steve Barnes
Yeah. Right.
00:19:29.23
lindsey
and And then later on in the book, It, Mike, of course, sees Pennywise as the giant bird at the Ironworks. So it's interesting that his father saw Pennywise as a giant bird.
00:19:43.62
lindsey
And then Mike also sees Pennywise as a giant bird. So I'm like, oh, wow, there's generational trauma going on that that this is the same vision in this family, um which, you know, you bringing up that Stan Uris you know, his ancestor is is possibly a missing child, you know, makes me wonder, okay, is is there some connection with
00:19:51.29
Steve Barnes
right
00:20:03.54
Steve Barnes
Yeah, that
00:20:11.23
lindsey
Like he he sees the creepy lady in the painting, you know, is this um is this something from his family that has been hidden from him? um And then, oh go ahead.
00:20:22.19
Steve Barnes
yeah that That bird goes back a little bit further too, because um his dad tells him, like his dad being Will, is telling him that when he was younger, he went and saw a movie with his father, who would be Leroy.
00:20:38.61
lindsey
Right.
00:20:38.83
Steve Barnes
um They went and saw Rodan, and it was like a bird that came and attacked the people. It was like a Japanese movie. And that scared Will, and but Will at the same time,
00:20:50.01
Steve Barnes
ah thought it was funny, but it scared him. that It like really hit his emotions.
00:20:52.38
lindsey
Right.
00:20:54.13
Steve Barnes
And he shared that movie with his son, Mike, and he also got those same scary feelings from that big old bird. So it's like he like intentionally shared that with Mike, but then also intentionally like shared the fear of it as well and what that could transpire, which I think is really neat.
00:21:18.87
lindsey
who
00:21:19.72
Steve Barnes
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:21:20.50
lindsey
right And then tragically, we know that, you know, Will and his wife, who are Mike's parents, diana high and die in a house fire when Mike is a baby.
00:21:32.27
lindsey
And that that's what leads Mike to be raised by his grandparents. So one thing I'm curious about with this plot line is that in the trailer, we see we see Leroy and Charlotte and we see Mike.
00:21:47.41
Steve Barnes
hu
00:21:49.58
lindsey
We don't see Will. So I'm wondering if Will is in this, in this series or if he's already died by now.
00:22:01.52
lindsey
Um,
00:22:02.88
Steve Barnes
Or maybe he'll show up in season two, perhaps.
00:22:03.27
lindsey
you
00:22:06.73
lindsey
but that's supposed to be because like they've moved the black spot from 1930 to 1962. So I'm assuming the black spot thing, I was assuming the black spot thing is going to be part of season one.
00:22:13.96
Steve Barnes
Oh.
00:22:19.90
lindsey
Um,
00:22:20.25
Steve Barnes
I hope so, because that's really what I'm looking forward to seeing and and like getting into that that whole dichotomy.
00:22:26.00
lindsey
Yeah, he doesn't meet viewers i mean that he's looking forward to seeing Mike Hanlon's family burned to pieces.
00:22:32.78
Steve Barnes
No, I'm looking.
00:22:33.26
lindsey
He's just intrigued how it will play out on screen.
00:22:36.70
Steve Barnes
yeah I mean, I was just reading one of those chapters a couple of days ago and like there was some action scenes involved and Dick Halloran is a hero. And i mean, there's a lot of behind the scenes stuff with that and that that whole group.
00:22:49.47
Steve Barnes
ah There's a lot of politics. We're going to we're going to get into it throughout the season.
00:22:52.83
lindsey
Right. Yeah, it's interesting that... Or not interesting. I use the word interesting probably too much. But one thing I think that is disturbing is that there's this generational trauma going on.
00:22:59.53
Steve Barnes
It's interesting.
00:23:08.05
lindsey
And Mike's father witnessed this burning of done by this racist group. And then later on, he himself dies in a burning house.
00:23:20.44
Steve Barnes
Oh, interesting. Oh, yeah, that is interesting.
00:23:21.30
lindsey
So there's kind of a...
00:23:22.96
Steve Barnes
You're right.
00:23:24.24
lindsey
There's kind of a connection with burning and like if something, something scared you or scarred you from an earlier time in your life, you would probably fear that for the rest of your life.
00:23:37.30
lindsey
You know, like if you, you know, if you, if you stepped on a thumbtack, you'd probably always be looking for where you walked, you know, will you step on a thumbtack again?
00:23:47.74
lindsey
Yeah.
00:23:49.06
Steve Barnes
Absolutely. I wasn't quite aware of all that because I just know the book version, which of course is house fire thing doesn't happen in the book.
00:23:50.52
lindsey
Yeah.
00:23:56.52
Steve Barnes
So I guess did they, is that a thing that was predominant in the movies? Like, did we watch o Will's parents and did we meet Leroy in the movies?
00:24:07.58
lindsey
We meet Leroy in both movie versions. um in In the more recent one, directed by Muschietti, the Hanlon family it are sheep herders, ah sheep farmers, as opposed to butchers or meat ah meet people.
00:24:24.67
Steve Barnes
Yes.
00:24:30.14
Steve Barnes
Okay. Meet people.
00:24:31.67
lindsey
In the...
00:24:31.97
Steve Barnes
Not me, that's for sure.
00:24:33.36
lindsey
In the books, they work in like a butcher, a butchery. He like is preparing me and they changed it for whatever reason to herding sheep and goats, because there's this whole thing about Mike having to shoot ah the sheep with the gun in it and its head to like put it out, paralyze it basically.
00:24:36.25
Steve Barnes
Okay.
00:24:52.13
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm.
00:24:52.27
lindsey
um And they use that on Pennywise later. But um yeah, we see lord Leroy because Leroy is raising Mike. And so there's the scenes that Mike has at home. He interacts with the grandfather. And Mike, you know, saw his parents. He was a sp in this situation. He was a young baby and his parents were burning in the next room and they couldn't get out. And he was too young to do anything about it because he was like in a little play, a little playpen or something and couldn't get out.
00:25:25.57
Steve Barnes
Okay.
00:25:26.16
lindsey
But he remembers that and Pennywise kind of uses that. um We don't really see the bird, I think, in the movies, but we see people burning and their hands are sticking out the door and and stuff.
00:25:40.00
Steve Barnes
I mean, in the trailer, we clearly see a bird and we see like the bird nest.
00:25:40.57
lindsey
so
00:25:44.29
Steve Barnes
And so, I mean, the bird's going to make an appearance in the season one.
00:25:45.33
lindsey
Yeah.
00:25:46.85
Steve Barnes
I know that's.
00:25:47.89
lindsey
Yes. Yes. So I'm ready to move on from the Hanlon family unless you have anything else to add there.
00:25:52.18
Steve Barnes
Hmm.
00:25:55.03
Steve Barnes
Nope. Moving on Hanlon's.
00:25:57.26
lindsey
Oh, did so you were going to talk about the black spot. did Was there anything else you said, wanted to say about that?
00:26:03.87
Steve Barnes
I mean, I could talk for a couple of moments about like the, the history of it and how it transpired and exactly what it is. Is that what I should do?
00:26:10.88
lindsey
Yeah. Like, what do you remember about the black spot incident?
00:26:11.97
Steve Barnes
Okay.
00:26:14.70
Steve Barnes
Sure. Well, I mean, the black spot itself is like a um ah bar because they wouldn't allow any of the black soldiers from Company E and any of the town bars.
00:26:15.51
lindsey
Yeah.
00:26:23.58
lindsey
Mm-hmm.
00:26:25.21
Steve Barnes
So they gave them this old shed kind of as a joke. Like here you got this. This is your bar now. um But they fixed it up really nice. and And they put a kitchen in the back. We already talked about that.
00:26:36.43
Steve Barnes
Dick Halloran worked in there. And um they had a jazz band among themselves because there was like 20 ish guys in this company. And they also had like white friends that would come by. And eventually the whole town was all into this place because like this is the only place you could get like real good jazz music. All those other bars were like country bars. All the white boys were over there.
00:26:58.86
Steve Barnes
Black spots where it's at.
00:27:00.55
lindsey
Mm-hmm.
00:27:00.58
Steve Barnes
Well, it got really popular. And the people in town were into it, but the higher ups, the the racists, so to speak, didn't didn't want to see any sort of black organization succeed.
00:27:14.46
Steve Barnes
So um they meant to scare them. So they were just going to, like, come there with pitchforks and do the KKK thing.
00:27:21.39
lindsey
<unk>
00:27:21.40
Steve Barnes
um Ended up burning the place down. Proving. probably with the help of the town itself, because we know the town itself is a hotbed of, um, hatred and it can ignite passions easily.
00:27:36.54
Steve Barnes
And Pennywise usually has a say in these kinds of things. And sure enough, a bird with red balloons made its appearance in the red and the black spot as it was burning down.
00:27:48.18
Steve Barnes
Um, just a few people escaped, but about 60 people ended up either died or injured at the black spot. And it was this whole incident was proudly put on by this, um the white decency group or something.
00:28:01.18
Steve Barnes
You said their name before.
00:28:01.49
lindsey
Right.
00:28:02.02
Steve Barnes
I forget what the name is called.
00:28:02.35
lindsey
Main legion of white decency. Mm-hmm.
00:28:05.07
Steve Barnes
Yeah, we shouldn't know their name, but that's what it is. And um yeah, and the and just like everything else that happens in Derry, the town just kind of let this happen um because things happen in Derry and people just kind of stand aside when it happens.
00:28:20.81
Steve Barnes
So, yeah, that's that's the tragedy of the black spot.
00:28:24.49
lindsey
You know, as you were talking about the incident of the black spot, I couldn't help but think about the movie Sinners.
00:28:32.01
Steve Barnes
Oh, yeah, definitely.
00:28:32.17
lindsey
have you Have you seen that, Eve?
00:28:34.12
Steve Barnes
Absolutely. Yes, exactly.
00:28:35.12
lindsey
Okay. Yeah, so the kind of the same thing. They bought this beat-up old barn that apparently, you know, we find out later, spoilers, that the KKK is using as, like, a lynching.
00:28:46.96
Steve Barnes
They read it.
00:28:47.83
lindsey
Yeah.
00:28:48.07
Steve Barnes
There's no question.
00:28:49.23
lindsey
You know, it's a Black-empowering Black Spot story because it ends...
00:28:54.69
Steve Barnes
Mm hmm.
00:28:55.70
lindsey
the total opposite way. They are not allowed to w wreck vengeance or violence upon those people. It's only the vampires that get to wreck violence.
00:29:01.95
Steve Barnes
yeah
00:29:06.46
lindsey
So, um yeah, that's interesting.
00:29:08.78
Steve Barnes
i I didn't realize a direct correlation there. They had to have known the story of the black spot and never read it and kind of like did their own loose adaption of it. That's now that you're saying this, there's no doubt in my mind.
00:29:21.84
Steve Barnes
Come at me, please. But it seems clear.
00:29:23.34
lindsey
Yeah. Yeah. um So yeah, I already kind of mentioned this, but just to clarify, as we're talking about time, um Andy Muschietti, he altered the timeline from the books.
00:29:36.95
lindsey
So in the books, It, not the book, but the book It, It takes place in two time periods, 1957 to which is the Losers club as kids, and to in the Muschietti movies,
00:29:42.00
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm.
00:29:51.27
lindsey
which is the losers as adults so in the muieti movies The kids exist in 1989 and the adults exist in 2017, which is why there's these discrepancies between the years.
00:30:07.01
lindsey
But since Muschietti started that universe, he has to kind of continue to abide by those rules.
00:30:12.94
Steve Barnes
Yes.
00:30:13.10
lindsey
And so he's doing that by kind of bumping things up every 20 years.
00:30:13.04
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm.
00:30:18.00
lindsey
So if you're a diehard book person and you see these dates and
00:30:21.42
Steve Barnes
yes
00:30:24.56
lindsey
That might be upsetting to you or you might be like, well, that's not how it happens in the books. But he's doing that on purpose and trying to obey by the rules of the world that he's created.
00:30:37.67
lindsey
Mm-hmm.
00:30:39.08
Steve Barnes
Well, we have his blessing. He's totally on board with the movies and with this show.
00:30:44.65
lindsey
Mm-hmm.
00:30:44.91
Steve Barnes
And um I mean, me as a diehard Stephen King fan and purist, and this this whole universe ties in with the Dark Tower as well. Another Stephen King story that also involves the Macroverse and Mater and the Turtle and all these same characters.
00:31:01.37
Steve Barnes
um So I'm a huge Stephen King fan. I'm okay with these changes because it is fiction. But mean, mainly because I just love good stories and I love, you know, seeing what can be done with stories.
00:31:16.28
Steve Barnes
And this is a good opportunity to say that, like, I i would welcome and I think Lindsay would to like any different opinions if you're if you have a well thought out um argument.
00:31:27.34
Steve Barnes
of of why, you know, this is not a good idea or about the the change of the losers club from seven to four, um let us know.
00:31:34.59
lindsey
Yeah,
00:31:35.63
Steve Barnes
Lindsay's, you know, web website is one of my stories. I'm sweet child of nine, sweet child of time.
00:31:38.37
lindsey
I mean, I think
00:31:40.98
Steve Barnes
i honestly love like a well thought out um opposite opinion. Um, so if you have that, let us know. i mean, i mean, don't come at us with something like, you know, who's running this clown show, Andy Spaghetti or whatever.
00:31:57.97
Steve Barnes
i mean, well thought out arguments are welcome.
00:32:02.36
lindsey
yeah i mean The only thing that and was initially confusing to me as I was kind of doing research and I came across the black spot. um That the black spot in the books was 1930 and here it was 1962 and the black spot is kind of mentioned in the context of possibly being on the show.
00:32:18.02
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. hu
00:32:24.09
lindsey
So I was the events themselves now like the events are going to have to make sense in the context of the of history like but ah lynchings and KKK stuff that happened up until you know the 1970s 1980s so it still works it's not like totally out of left field that this would be relevant for 1962 as well as 1930 but I think that could be the only thing that throws things off because there are events in history that
00:33:00.53
lindsey
um the dates have been changed. So I think that's the only thing that could be a little confusing about it as people are trying to figure out where in this history are we.
00:33:11.38
Steve Barnes
I would argue that this is a better time period to put the black spot because the black spot in the book happened in the 30s. And of course there was racial tension in the thirty s
00:33:21.78
lindsey
Mm-hmm.
00:33:22.88
Steve Barnes
In the 60s, during the civil rights movements, when people were seeing, you know, black businesses as encroaching on them and the news and the media wasn't being very inclusive and showing, you know, trying to show unity.
00:33:38.24
Steve Barnes
And a lot of people were against that in Derry, Maine.
00:33:41.18
lindsey
Right.
00:33:42.63
Steve Barnes
So I think it's kind of appropriate that it happens in the 60s because it's like a backlash. Like you're ah ah a well-versed student of the civil right movement. Like you've done some deep research on that.
00:33:53.98
Steve Barnes
ah the like Those feelings, I think, come out and they make a lot of sense to happen along this storyline, the black spot.
00:34:04.36
lindsey
Yeah. And um just watching the movies, too, it was interesting because the bullies... in the, in the, um, miniseries were wearing leather jackets and fifties gear and the bullies in that the, the, uh, the other one they were wearing, the guy had like a mullet.
00:34:25.69
lindsey
And so like the clothing of the, especially the bullies like Henry Bowers and all them was, was much different. So it was just,
00:34:33.98
Steve Barnes
When you say a mullet, how would you categorize them? Are they seeming like, like hippie-ish or no?
00:34:38.30
lindsey
you know, um Mullet would be business in the front, party in the back.
00:34:43.84
Steve Barnes
Sure. Yeah. But I mean, are these, ah they're not wearing leather jackets. They were in like Letterman jackets or like,
00:34:48.55
lindsey
They're not wearing leather jackets. He was wearing like a sleeveless shirt and these jeans and especially like Beverly. I noticed Beverly Marsh's clothing was very ninety s She was wearing like these kind of Steve Madden boots and um almost grunge clothing. so
00:35:06.88
Steve Barnes
Okay.
00:35:07.22
lindsey
ah you know, and it because I had just watched the other movie, you know, watched the movie so close together that it just struck me as, wait a second, like I was assuming while I was watching it that it was happening during the, like, the 50s, and it wasn't.
00:35:12.00
Steve Barnes
Okay.
00:35:22.83
Steve Barnes
Right.
00:35:24.36
lindsey
So it was like, I had to, that's why I was so confused when I heard them playing Bust a Move. And I was like, why they playing Bust a Move? That's totally out of left field and then but then when I looked at oh Bust a Move was released in 1989 and that's when the adult um the kid losers are around so he had to really research what song he was listening to on the radio that summer
00:35:42.05
Steve Barnes
Okay.
00:35:54.35
Steve Barnes
That makes more sense now. Cause when you said mullets, I was thinking this time period, 1962. And I was like, they didn't have mullets then did they?
00:36:00.52
lindsey
yeah yeah
00:36:02.79
Steve Barnes
That's what trying to picture in my head. What does a bully in 1962 look like? But yeah, an eighties bully with a mullet, listen to some, uh, some young MC that makes sense.
00:36:09.50
lindsey
Yes.
00:36:13.89
lindsey
Torn jeans and converse, you know, that kind of thing. But, you know, converse kind of came back, but leave the but converse out of it.
00:36:20.30
Steve Barnes
It never went away. Lindsay.
00:36:23.33
lindsey
Leave the converse out of the conversation. All right. So we're going to move into some some history of the town of Derry. So the the town of Derry itself was created in 1981 short story by Stephen King.
00:36:37.84
lindsey
It's not a real town, although some people might argue that it is And that it's been mentioned since 1981. And it's the last book that he set in Derry was 11-22-63, which was a 2011 publication.
00:36:57.72
Steve Barnes
Right.
00:36:57.83
lindsey
So it's, but it's the main um city, not the only city that Stephen King revisits over and over again, but it's, I was looking through the list of either, you know, books set in dairy or books where dairy is mentioned.
00:37:15.98
lindsey
And I would say there's probably more books that are on the list than not on the list.
00:37:15.92
Steve Barnes
right
00:37:22.17
Steve Barnes
I mean, probably not as many as Castle Rock, because that's like where most of this stuff happens. But yeah, dairy has popped up a ton since its inception in the 1700s.
00:37:29.11
lindsey
Mm-hmm.
00:37:33.82
lindsey
And it's interesting that like in 1982, after the bird and the album, the next, just ah just as a fun fact, and then I'm going to move on from the Stephen King part of it.
00:37:46.45
lindsey
But the fun fact is the next book that it was mentioned in was 1982, which is The Running Man. And a new movie version of that is coming out this year, which i didn't realize was a Stephen King film.
00:38:02.28
lindsey
or Richard Bachman book. and
00:38:03.41
Steve Barnes
Richard Bachman.
00:38:04.06
lindsey
Yeah.
00:38:04.09
Steve Barnes
Yeah, that's right.
00:38:05.07
lindsey
Yeah. Okay. So just a quick history of Derry. And then Steve's going to talk about the history of Pennywise and Matcher and the Turtle and all these people. So um the town was founded in 1741 as Township. And there were people that disappeared.
00:38:30.05
lindsey
Then in 1851, we have John Markson who killed his entire family with poison and then gobbled an entire mushroom to kill himself.
00:38:41.04
lindsey
So um kind of bleak there.
00:38:42.42
Steve Barnes
the kind of mushroom that causes like um muscle paralysis, very painful death.
00:38:47.98
lindsey
Right, white.
00:38:48.26
Steve Barnes
And I want to say there's 340 people that disappeared in 1741. That was the entire township. The whole town disappeared, Croatan style.
00:38:55.76
lindsey
Right. Yeah, exactly. Like North Carolina, the lost colony.
00:39:01.78
Steve Barnes
idea Yeah, that was, it first happened in Derry apparently.
00:39:03.05
lindsey
Yes. Yeah. um Then in 1864, so I wonder when all these, if these all these people disappeared, how did people come back? That's, we'll never know, I guess.
00:39:14.96
lindsey
Okay. 120 people
00:39:16.04
Steve Barnes
it's It has a healthy population. I'll talk about that too.
00:39:21.07
lindsey
and eighteen sixty four hundred twenty people fifty kids and seventy adults were shot Only 10 kids survived and one adult by a gang called Derry Padrinos, which is ran by Confederate sympathizers.
00:39:35.80
lindsey
So the um the the history of politics in this town started off with a bang.
00:39:43.00
Steve Barnes
Yep.
00:39:44.21
lindsey
um Then in 1879, we had ah remains found of a crew of nine lumberjacks who were snowed at a camp in the upper Kandoskiag.
00:39:55.67
lindsey
I don't know how you print pronounce that, but it's a real...
00:39:57.88
Steve Barnes
eke
00:39:59.16
lindsey
The what? because
00:40:00.20
Steve Barnes
It's just simply Kandusky.
00:40:01.95
lindsey
Okay. The Canal, which is a real place in Maine, and all nine were hacked to pieces.
00:40:05.64
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm.
00:40:10.29
lindsey
which ah Which I guess is where we get our nice lumberjacks statue.
00:40:16.05
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
00:40:17.62
lindsey
um
00:40:17.57
Steve Barnes
I mean, it's a, lu it's a lumber town has been like the whole town. mean, the whole time they talk about how it's always been a lumber town and how like the dairy library is like the recycling plant because all those trees get turned into books for Will Hanlon.
00:40:33.53
lindsey
um Then in 1900, we have five people ah who were murdered by the Derry Padrinos back again.
00:40:42.71
Steve Barnes
Yep.
00:40:43.39
lindsey
and um in 1902, the Derry Padrinos were murdered by Pennywise. And then in 1906, on Easter Sunday, 102 people killed during the Kitchener Ironworks explosion during an Easter egg hunt.
00:41:01.64
lindsey
Then 1935, the Bradley Gang were executed by a group of vigilantes in a shootout downtown.
00:41:08.66
Steve Barnes
huh
00:41:09.28
lindsey
Then we have the Black Spot and Mike Canlan's parents dying in a fire. So that's kind of on paper what people might see at the library, except for all the stuff about Pennywise, which wouldn't be there.
00:41:21.89
lindsey
It would be all mystery, unsolved mystery of how this happened.
00:41:24.99
Steve Barnes
Right.
00:41:26.44
lindsey
And Steve's going to fill in those blanks for us about the real history of Derry.
00:41:31.56
Steve Barnes
Okay. Well, apparently, um,
00:41:38.75
Steve Barnes
The, the, I'm stumbling at my words here. This is, this is a, this is a hard one to kind of wrap your head around because it's a very mystic. There's an ancient entity that came from the Mac reverse.
00:41:50.07
Steve Barnes
So first off, what is the Mac reverse? According to Stephen King, it's a universe that mature in the turtle ah burped out one day and that became the Mac reverse simply said, um, yes, it's the creator
00:42:01.99
lindsey
So you're saying that this matter in the turtle is the first is the and original entity, the creator. Okay.
00:42:09.07
Steve Barnes
is the creator, the good creator.
00:42:11.54
lindsey
Mm-hmm.
00:42:12.84
Steve Barnes
because Because with every good, there's always going to be evil. So there is always a dark side to the Mac reverse, which is come to be known. Maturin has always referred to that dark side as it.
00:42:26.72
Steve Barnes
So that's what it gets his name from. is,
00:42:32.46
Steve Barnes
feeds primarily on the fears of people and the fears and insecurities and the hyped up emotions of people. Um, because children apparently, according the Stephen King lore, because kids feel emotions more purely and have more intense fears and a more intense belief system, they're more adapt to be targets for it um It needs to feed, so to speak. It's like a bear. It hibernates.
00:43:03.38
Steve Barnes
And about every 30 years or so is when it comes out of its den and feeds on mostly children, sometimes adults, mostly children. It came here through a comet that crashed on Earth.
00:43:17.37
Steve Barnes
And ah just like the band Gwar, they also crashed on earth Millions of years ago and lived underneath our the ice layer.
00:43:27.86
lindsey
Uh-huh.
00:43:28.79
Steve Barnes
And then in 1700, when that first dairy company, 1741, first pitched their forks into the town and started building the town dairy, that's when it awoke because they built the town dairy right on top of where it crash landed on earth.
00:43:48.46
Steve Barnes
It woke up. it was greedy. It ate up all those 340 people Lindsay talked about, and then it went to sleep and every 27 or 30 years, it comes back. um Sometime around the 1800s, it figured out that a really cool way to lure kids into it is by a clown because generally it feeds off each person's individual fear Like if it was me, if it was like trying to come after me, it would take the form of like a stinging insect, a giant stinging insect of some sort.
00:44:24.90
Steve Barnes
um That's what it would look like to me because that's one of my big fears. So... A lot of kids are scared of clowns, so and but a lot of kids like clowns. Clowns have like this kind of dual personality.
00:44:38.27
Steve Barnes
So it used the persona of a clown to lure kids. Even further so, this clown gave itself two names to use. In like the human world, when he goes around and like interacts with adults, he might call himself Bob Gray.
00:44:56.28
Steve Barnes
um He's called himself that to Eddie Casbrook in the in the book and in the show. um He introduced himself to Bob Gray and he introduced himself as Bob Gray to um Bill's little brother as well that got killed.
00:45:10.23
Steve Barnes
Um, so he's known as Bob gray, but all the kids know him as Pennywise. He tries to appear as like an enticing clown. Um, but we're scared of him. We're very scared of him. We've seen the movies and we've read the book.
00:45:25.47
Steve Barnes
He's a very scary guy. Um, killing him. or defeating him is pretty tough because you have to be able to be steadfast and true of heart.
00:45:36.77
Steve Barnes
And, um, that's what I wanted to ask you about, Lindsay. I'm going to segue over to you because in the book, the way that build bill battled young bill, Denbrow, he battled it, was through this thing called the Ritual of Chud, and they mind-locked with each other.
00:45:55.78
Steve Barnes
So all the battle they did happened inside their heads, where they like yelled at each other with their minds and like put these visions at each other and stuff. um How did they battle ah Pennywise or It in the book?
00:46:12.02
Steve Barnes
I mean, like in the movie, when they were kids?
00:46:15.07
lindsey
Mm-hmm. So there's two different adaptations, and each of them handled that differently. In the miniseries, which I keep trying to remember what year it was it came out, but it was somewhere around the nineteen eighty s nineteen ninety s I think.
00:46:32.34
Steve Barnes
I think it was like 92, 93. Okay. Mm-hmm.
00:46:33.87
lindsey
yeah
00:46:36.77
lindsey
so this This is actually one of the reasons why I thought that that original miniseries wasn't very good is the scene that I'm going to describe to you. Because what happens in the miniseries is they get really mad that Pennywise has done all this.
00:46:46.72
Steve Barnes
okay
00:46:55.87
lindsey
And they essentially, ah it's turned into a spider. And what it shows them doing is basically as adults going up to this spider and like punching and kicking it like,
00:47:12.99
lindsey
and it looks really cheesy and stupid as, as a visual spectacle.
00:47:14.88
Steve Barnes
It sounds cheesy.
00:47:23.25
lindsey
Now, when I watched the whole thing, it was, it worked better for me because of the emotion that I had attached to the characters at that point, because I was just, um,
00:47:34.39
Steve Barnes
and Okay.
00:47:37.12
lindsey
I was just kind of watching it in clips on YouTube during a lunch break. So I wasn't really watching it a whole movie. And i want to say that I think that the miniseries is actually pretty good.
00:47:52.77
lindsey
You know, the especially the one thing they got right was the chemistry between the adult actors, which I felt like was the weakest part of the newer movie.
00:48:02.91
Steve Barnes
Sure.
00:48:03.57
lindsey
But in the original, I mean, the cast did a stunning job. so by So by me watching it, the scene went over better for me. But essentially, as them, they just go up and beat up on this giant spider puppet.
00:48:17.88
lindsey
And so it it doesn't look very good. What they do in the newer movies is, in a reap in a way, a repeat. Like, when they were kids...
00:48:29.52
lindsey
they use their imaginations to defeat Pennywise. Like um Eddie says, this is poison. And he points his inhaler and squirts it. And because he, because he says that and makes it happen, or they have the little arrow from the the little broken arrow from the house.
00:48:39.62
Steve Barnes
Yeah, I remember that.
00:48:47.09
lindsey
And they're like, this kills monsters. You know, it's like, they believe it does. So what they ended up doing as adults is they just yell insults at Pennywise.
00:48:59.68
lindsey
big did to until he feels offended because each of them, but what I thought was cool about that. Okay. So it does sound kind of s silly. They're just like, you're a clown. You're a clown. You're a clown. um Is that each of the losers we know is bullied a lot and picked on and made to feel really small.
00:49:16.71
lindsey
So they kind of realized, they said their idea was we were going to get Pennywise to come into this particular tunnel because he has to follow us. And when he goes into the tunnel, he'll get really small and then we can kill him.
00:49:30.31
lindsey
But Pennywise doesn't do that. He doesn't obey their plan. And they think to themselves, there's more than one way to make someone small.
00:49:34.86
Steve Barnes
Oh.
00:49:38.93
lindsey
And each of them knows that. So they just yell insults at Pennywise and they make him small by calling him names.
00:49:40.83
Steve Barnes
OK.
00:49:46.86
lindsey
It's kind of like in, there's these very famous stories where somebody will say like a giant, oh, I bet you're not that powerful because you can't make yourself into a tiny thing that's small enough to fit into this teapot.
00:50:04.30
lindsey
And in their pride, the monster will get all upset and then they'll get in the teapot and they'll just smash it, you know. um So it's like emotional abuse of Pennywise that allows them to kill him.
00:50:15.87
Steve Barnes
I mean, it's the same thing in the book, too. That's how they eventually did it. um They like... they would, and they would like confront him, be like, we don't believe in you. You're not real.
00:50:26.67
Steve Barnes
You don't scare me. You can't get to me. That's basically like was the gist of, you know, their determination.
00:50:32.17
lindsey
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:50:34.11
Steve Barnes
That's how they kind of battled it. I guess similarly, um, they eventually had to like, I think like crush his heart or something. I think that was key to getting to quote unquote, getting rid of him for real
00:50:42.57
lindsey
the
00:50:47.00
Steve Barnes
we know Pennywise or the entity of it keeps coming back. um That's the whole point of like this series and the series and the losers club. And now this group from 1962
00:50:59.38
Steve Barnes
you know they They don't want to just sit there and allow their friends to disappear and die. They want to go find it and confront it and get rid of it because the police won't do anything about it.
00:51:11.71
Steve Barnes
That's the whole thing about Derry we forgot is like the town of Derry, when it wakes up, the town is like asleep
00:51:12.11
lindsey
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:51:19.35
Steve Barnes
not asleep literally, but like they don't pay attention to what's happening around them. A prime example is like the silver dollar incident, which is where this, there was like a union dispute. And one of the guys, a lumberjack, as we say, um took an ax to like a group of people in this bar, the silver dollar.
00:51:38.08
Steve Barnes
While he was doing this, everybody else in the bar was not paying attention to it at all. Like as if it wasn't even happening. And the way they described it later was like, well, we didn't want to get involved because like it was none of our business. So we were, you know, and in essence, it blinds people around them so it can allow these horrible things to happen.
00:52:00.58
lindsey
So that only happens during the hibernation periods. I was thinking that that um kind of like bad things happen in dairy.
00:52:11.48
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm.
00:52:11.63
lindsey
I thought it was always kind of like that.
00:52:11.62
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm.
00:52:14.72
lindsey
But you're saying that the adults go a little more asleep during the during the periods when Pennywise comes out. Did you get that from somewhere?
00:52:23.61
Steve Barnes
It's debatable.
00:52:24.91
lindsey
Yeah.
00:52:25.67
Steve Barnes
yeah i just got that from my own belief. Like it just seemed to make sense to me that that's how it operated, but you're right. That's something that, um, that will Hanlon told his son, Mike is like the soil in dairy is bad.
00:52:40.47
Steve Barnes
Like this whole town is bad. The soil itself is rotten and bad. So that kind of leads to your theory. So I think, I mean, it's up for debate. Um, you've already convinced me that,
00:52:52.03
Steve Barnes
that it's, you know the whole town all the time is ah is like that.
00:52:56.38
lindsey
Well, I'm not saying I, that's what I believe necessarily. I just, I kind of thought um that it was because,
00:53:01.56
Steve Barnes
It makes sense though.
00:53:06.18
lindsey
and not because it's almost like a chicken and egg situation. It's like, you're saying in the story, um Pennywise lands and that's, this is just where he ends up.
00:53:17.18
lindsey
So you might say, um, when Pennywise landed there, did he, is he creating these, did he create the town and how bad it is?
00:53:22.16
Steve Barnes
Oh.
00:53:28.03
lindsey
Or did he just find the perfect town for him to be able to wreck his havoc?
00:53:29.30
Steve Barnes
Right.
00:53:35.44
lindsey
Uh, because, it does seem like that it's kind of a, um, a bad, a bad place in general.
00:53:45.47
lindsey
Like in the movies we see, um, Beverly Marsh is like being tortured by the bully gang and an adult drives by who could have stopped to help her.
00:53:56.57
lindsey
And the adult just like turns their head.
00:53:57.13
Steve Barnes
Right. That's right.
00:53:59.60
lindsey
Um, so yeah, I'm kind of, yeah.
00:54:00.47
Steve Barnes
So that's been established. Okay. Hmm.
00:54:02.41
lindsey
So I'm kind of wondering if like, um, if, the adults are more laid back and non-intervention-y during these, or if they're always that way, because yeah, we know that, we know that there's bad stuff going on.
00:54:12.78
Steve Barnes
Hmm. I think...
00:54:17.71
lindsey
Like we have racism, obviously we've got ah PTSD from the war, like Henry Bowers, his dad is abusive towards him. learned that his dad's got this PTSD.
00:54:31.31
lindsey
So there's like, sexual abuse, there's physical abuse, there's emotional abuse. We've got man chows and by proxy from the Eddie's mom.
00:54:43.51
lindsey
So we've got some pretty bad parents.
00:54:43.51
Steve Barnes
Right.
00:54:45.52
lindsey
It's almost like, um, you know, in the world of dark, just to go back to that, you had sort of, you had sort of like trauma happening all over the place, bad things happening.
00:54:52.86
Steve Barnes
Perfect example. Yes.
00:55:00.52
lindsey
And, um, would those Would that trauma, those bad things only be happening during these periods? So I don't know.
00:55:08.51
Steve Barnes
I mean, in dark, you got that power plant and that could have something to do with it. i mean, we know that, you know, it's different in dark, but what you were just saying, you've convinced me to make a great argument for this because he crash landed and then his like, his entity was there for millions of years in the soil.
00:55:13.89
lindsey
Yeah.
00:55:27.38
lindsey
Right.
00:55:27.67
Steve Barnes
The, the townsfolk that came there and established dairy woke him up. But like Mike's dad says, dairy is evil in the soil, like a black mold situation.
00:55:39.50
Steve Barnes
Like if you live in a house with black mold, it's going to affect you maybe even mentally or like a Chernobyl situation where like the ground itself is tainted and like everything that comes from this area, i.e.
00:55:40.38
lindsey
um
00:55:52.33
Steve Barnes
the people and the animals and the food that's grown there all has a bit of that in there. um I've just convinced myself, Lindsay. Yeah.
00:56:01.10
lindsey
And then the people the people who like want to fight for their kids and were like, I can't stay here. They would leave. ah Other people stay and become more hopeless every year or something like that, you know, or they're, this is just as good as it's going to get.
00:56:11.69
Steve Barnes
Right. That's right.
00:56:15.89
lindsey
One interesting thing I wanted, here I go with the interesting again. um You mentioned Maturin the turtle in the newer movie, in it part two, we had Mike Hanlon, they show this incident where he goes outside the town and he interacts with an indigenous group.
00:56:37.50
lindsey
And When he's recalling that, he tells Bill about it, and this is where I went. He says, they gave me their maturin. So that was a drink that they gave him before he went into that weird kind of trance.
00:56:50.79
Steve Barnes
Okay.
00:56:52.24
lindsey
So they named this drink after the turtle, I guess, um because that's how they spelled it.
00:56:58.00
Steve Barnes
Or maybe vice, maybe, maybe the other way around because, you know, Mater and the turtle didn't name himself that. That's just what we earthlings name it. You know, when we talk about it, we don't know what his true name is.
00:57:11.04
Steve Barnes
So yeah, I think, I think the drink is definitely an Easter egg speech going to with speaking of which I hope to make a segment each week. We can call maybe the Kitchener Ironworks Easter Egg Hunt, where we talk about all the cool Easter eggs that we see in the show each episode, because I know they're going to drop about a dozen at least, because all Stephen King properties do that.
00:57:34.07
lindsey
Yeah. Yes, you have some interesting ideas for our format. um One more piece of kind of literary history about dairy I want to discuss.
00:57:46.58
lindsey
And I was going to go into some landmarks, but I thought this was interesting.
00:57:49.38
Steve Barnes
Okay.
00:57:51.84
lindsey
Now I don't know anything. ah i don't know much about Stephen King's politics. Maybe you do, but um there's a story called Gwendy's button box. And um so I saw this quote from Wikipedia and I thought it funny um or interesting because um So it says, according to Gwendy Peterson, who's the character main character of Gwendy's button box, during a political campaign, she failed to reach any sympathy from the people of Derry for its population is mostly Republican with strong anti-LBG, LGBTQ sentiments.
00:58:26.81
lindsey
So that was that was some a character he put in his book that Derry is Republican and that they're homophobic.
00:58:30.43
Steve Barnes
Okay.
00:58:33.22
Steve Barnes
Yeah. like i thought I definitely get that sense too. Like the way he describes characters. I mean, definitely, I mean, cause I just recently have reread the book like within the past week. So I definitely got that sense.
00:58:45.96
Steve Barnes
And Stephen King is like a, you know, he wears it on his sleeve that he's ah a left wing liberal. Like he calls himself a loony left wing liberal, I believe is the phrase that he uses.
00:58:57.47
Steve Barnes
He gets in Twitter spats with Trump and JD Vance on regular basis.
00:59:00.03
lindsey
Mm-hmm.
00:59:02.43
Steve Barnes
And I always got the sense as a kid reading his books that he was definitely um very progressive the way he would handle things. Like when you're reading like on the face, when you're reading it especially the Mike Hanlon chapters, you're going to see the N word about like a hundred times. And for me, it's unnecessary to write it that many times, but it's always in the context of, you know, how it's not right and how, um,
00:59:33.89
Steve Barnes
His politics always seem to lean on the side of acceptance. I should say that. And he likes to bring in different types of characters to interact with each other in interesting ways.
00:59:45.40
Steve Barnes
And more than likely, his characters are also going to be accepting people that are very progressive. But he always likes to throw in ah hardcore like conservative. I won't say Republican, but a hardcore conservative type.
01:00:00.70
Steve Barnes
that is ah not accepting and is stuck in the past and is there as like a catalyst for um conflict, I suppose.
01:00:10.07
lindsey
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
01:00:11.19
Steve Barnes
But I mean, reading in his voice, like as Mike Hanlon, um, Or as you know many of us, not just that, but I mean, ah can't reference all of his books at this point because I haven't, you know, I just finished reading it.
01:00:25.88
Steve Barnes
I'm not going to speak for any other books that I haven't read recently, but I'm pretty sure that youll you'll find a lot of ah progressive values. Like I wouldn't say so like small amounts. I would say large amounts that hit you over the head.
01:00:40.70
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
01:00:41.60
lindsey
i so i I always thought he was more centrist. I don't know that for sure. You but might know more about politics than I do. I do know that some of the things he has in his book are troubling.
01:00:55.67
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
01:00:55.94
lindsey
And um not not just from the perspective of, yes, what's troubling things happen, disturbing things happen. But there's a lot of um magical black characters and i even coined a I even coined a phrase magical girl character because there's that, you know, this kind of cringeworthy part that happens after the ritual of Chad in the books that it's like, oh, the Beverly had to have sex with all seven losers to keep everybody together.
01:01:14.49
Steve Barnes
Yeah, that's right.
01:01:22.52
Steve Barnes
Yes.
01:01:30.88
lindsey
Like that was
01:01:31.40
Steve Barnes
We don't want to talk about that. That didn't happen. I skipped that chapter in the book.
01:01:37.88
lindsey
okay, I'm sorry, maybe, I don't know. You can decide if you want to edit it out, but I just think it is something I didn't know was in the books, and then I found it, and I thought, yes, it's really disturbing, but I also found it interesting because about that same time, I was hearing about the magical black character and how that functions and how many times Stephen King has that type of character in one of his books, and I'm like, well, he's doing the same thing for women,
01:02:02.33
Steve Barnes
Absolutely. Yes.
01:02:07.73
lindsey
is that you know you're going to put her through this incident as like the healing person that has to help the group um by doing this or that.
01:02:17.91
lindsey
So it was something I don't like, and I don't think it's necessarily progressive to put that in your books.
01:02:18.63
Steve Barnes
ah
01:02:21.82
Steve Barnes
Right.
01:02:26.37
Steve Barnes
I can't, I don't disagree with you. That's why I say your mom was probably correct when you were a kid to put that book away because there was a lot of really like shocking and not right things.
01:02:34.57
lindsey
Yeah.
01:02:37.40
Steve Barnes
You're not wrong with anything you said, but I do think that the way that he writes, he always tries to bring um conversation to the table, always tries to bring a different perspective to the table.
01:02:49.87
Steve Barnes
He does the thing same thing to the Jewish community through the voice of Stan Uris, and it does seem disrespectful, and there's a lot of stereotypes that are thrown in there.
01:02:53.96
lindsey
Mm-hmm.
01:02:59.89
Steve Barnes
And they also talk about how Stan Uris's parents have dealt with those stereotypes. And there's always another side to, um, it's not, it's always not just one sided.
01:03:12.80
Steve Barnes
He usually brings you multiple perspectives. And I think for that, I've always thought, felt he was a more progressive writer. He is your classic guy from the North that like, I'm not racist. I got black friends, you know, kind of like the, you want to roll your eyes at some of like the quote unquote progressive stuff he spiels. Cause you know, he's like a, what a 70, 80 year old man who's changed throughout the years, but he has tackled all all of these points within his own interviews where people have confronted him with those exact same points that you make.
01:03:45.64
Steve Barnes
And he has pretty succinct answers and he doesn't really make apologies necessarily, but he does have um valid responses to all that.
01:03:50.61
lindsey
Right.
01:03:56.70
lindsey
I would probably never confront him about it. I would just complain about him behind his back. But um no, I will say, I know that I think there's something beautiful, like underneath like there's what happens on the surface and then there's kind of like what it represents.
01:04:01.19
Steve Barnes
like we're doing right now
01:04:11.01
lindsey
So I do think there's something beautiful and true about the fact that um Pennywise is fueled on fear. They defeated him, but then they scattered him. And i think that is something also we see in the Bible, in the Christ narrative.
01:04:25.33
lindsey
Like after Christ died, the apostles were scattered and didn't know what to do.
01:04:29.89
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
01:04:30.77
lindsey
And so they had this moment of empowerment where they won, but then they were um they all got lost, I guess, and were not sure. And it's bringing them finding each other that helps them to get out of the cave. And I think there's something beautiful about that,
01:04:50.11
lindsey
But I feel like it pushed the envelope but a little to put that in. But i I understand that he's doing things symbolically that are very moving. And so i respect him as an author.
01:05:02.46
lindsey
um i just thought that was really troubling. And you agree with me. So we can move on.
01:05:10.16
Steve Barnes
Yeah, i was I was reading his book. I was like, you're canceled. You're canceled. Like every fifth page, I was like, you're canceled for that, buddy. Like I canceled him in my mind. But I mean, all in all, I forgive him.
01:05:20.55
lindsey
Mm-hmm. I'm forgiving him as long as we have to sit through it in the movies. Like, don't put this sit don't put that in there, Andy Muschietti. Like, don't put it in your show.
01:05:33.39
lindsey
we don't We don't need, we can let it go.
01:05:35.98
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
01:05:36.11
lindsey
Okay, this last kind of section I wanted to just talk about is the places of dairy. And the reason I wanted to go over these is, um you know, they might be ones we all recognize, but
01:05:49.11
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
01:05:49.83
lindsey
I think landmarks are important. Again, going back to Dark, in Dark you have the caves, you have ah the school, you have the police station, you have these places that are revisited over and over again, the hospital.
01:06:07.91
lindsey
And they become that much more rich because they're revisited again. And so, especially since in watching 2017 movie and watching the Muschietti movies, I was like, I bet he's using the same set that he used on the movie to do the TV show because it looks pretty identical to what I saw in the trailer.
01:06:28.28
Steve Barnes
I thought so too.
01:06:30.02
lindsey
Right. So he's probably going to reuse some of these spots. Maybe we're going to see them again. And we even see some of them in the trailer and the publicity for the show. um
01:06:39.83
Steve Barnes
I think it'll be cool to see some of these spots.
01:06:40.06
lindsey
Go ahead, Steve.
01:06:41.87
Steve Barnes
Like we're going to see them in 1962 first, but we'll hopefully see these exact same spots, how they looked back in 1935.
01:06:44.93
lindsey
who
01:06:47.57
lindsey
Yes.
01:06:50.11
Steve Barnes
Something I wanted to mention about the town of Derry before you do this, because we're talking about locations within Derry.
01:06:53.19
lindsey
Mm-hmm.
01:06:55.85
Steve Barnes
Derry itself, um I got the population from Mr. Keene himself, the the drugstore guy. um He said at the time of the Bradley gang, when that happened in 1929,
01:07:08.44
Steve Barnes
The town of Derry had a population of 20,000. twenty thousand So it's not exactly a small town like you might think. And I looked at, you know, are you know, i live in Virginia.
01:07:19.60
Steve Barnes
Lindsay is in North Carolina and Virginia. It's the exact same size as Culpeper, Virginia. 20,000 and North Carolina, we got Elizabeth city, the exact same thing, a population of 20,000. So this is the type of, you know, size city we're talking about.
01:07:36.93
Steve Barnes
I've always pictured dairy as a super small town. And apparently I'm wrong in that. Yeah.
01:07:43.86
lindsey
Yeah. Well, I was considered it a small town too. That's, that's interesting that, um, all right.
01:07:49.40
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
01:07:51.46
lindsey
So the first one is the Barrens. Okay. The Barrens is there's is home base for the losers club. That's where they created the dam. Um, if there's the landfill and, you know, Henry Bowers was washed out into the Barrens by a flash flood.
01:08:11.71
lindsey
um Is there anything else you remember about the Barons?
01:08:14.94
Steve Barnes
Not necessarily. I mean, I know we're definitely going to see them again because they're, I mean, it's a time.
01:08:16.18
lindsey
Yeah.
01:08:20.66
Steve Barnes
I mean, it's not time specific.
01:08:23.08
lindsey
Yeah.
01:08:23.10
Steve Barnes
they The way the town is laid out, the barons are always going to be there and probably always be part of the plot as well as the next thing that Lindsay's going to say.
01:08:32.69
lindsey
Yeah. I do wonder if, yeah, if the if the new losers or the old losers will be playing the Barons. Right. Okay, so the sewers.
01:08:42.16
Steve Barnes
Yes, that's it.
01:08:44.08
lindsey
Go ahead.
01:08:44.26
Steve Barnes
always going to be a sewer system in every city and that's where Pennywise loves to live
01:08:47.49
lindsey
Well, thank goodness.
01:08:49.52
Steve Barnes
ah
01:08:51.94
lindsey
Where Pennywise lives. where Who doesn't want to live in a sewer? We actually had ah we had sewers in my hometown, Lafayette, Indiana.
01:09:02.47
lindsey
And we used to call them the tunnels. And this is...
01:09:04.81
Steve Barnes
oh yeah
01:09:05.34
lindsey
ah We would go As a high schooler, it was like, oh, let's go to the tunnels and walk inside. And then people were like, you know, twice a day they wash these out.
01:09:18.20
lindsey
And I'm like, all right, let's leave because that was really scary. So I can't imagine going going in into these um sewers and really exploring.
01:09:29.08
lindsey
That would be really scary.
01:09:29.35
Steve Barnes
Well, I've, I've got two things to say now, then and I know we're trying to rear down here, but when I was a young child, we used to play in the Creek and play in the sewers as well.
01:09:34.34
lindsey
Yeah. Yeah.
01:09:39.40
Steve Barnes
I'm talking like, when I was like eight or nine and I stepped in a piece of glass when we were going through like one of those concrete pipes, just like in the, in it, we were like going under the street in the concrete pipe, stepped on a piece of glass.
01:09:51.28
Steve Barnes
I was barefoot, of course. And I needed stitches. So of course I was in a lot of pain. And the girl that was with me was like, make sure wash your, wash it out. You got to wash it out with plenty of water.
01:10:05.87
Steve Barnes
So I was using the sewer water to wash out my wound. It was fine in all. Cause you know, I got, got antiseptics later, but ah that was a really bad move.
01:10:18.52
lindsey
you had your own You had your own Eddie Kasprak friend there like telling you about...
01:10:18.51
Steve Barnes
ah But I'm not,
01:10:23.79
Steve Barnes
i guess so and yeah And there was like a Richie type there that had cigarettes that was trying to give us cigarettes as well. But my occupation is wastewater, water and wastewater. So this is kind of what we do.
01:10:36.48
Steve Barnes
And in one of our sewer systems, when I was driving through last week, somebody put a clown in one of sewer grates. So like it's Halloween, of course.
01:10:45.19
lindsey
Nope.
01:10:46.59
Steve Barnes
So yeah, that's what I said too. I was like, that's not fun. I don't like this.
01:10:52.01
lindsey
Okay. The kissing bridge. ah The kissing bridge is where Henry tries to put his initials into Ben's stomach and it runs over the canal.
01:10:59.19
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm.
01:11:00.96
lindsey
And so we might see the kissing bridge again. It's also where ah Beverly was stopped by the bullies. So that there's been a couple of things with the losers club that happened near the kissing bridge. And I'm wondering if that's going to show up in the show.
01:11:14.82
Steve Barnes
It's also where the skateboard kid at the end of the book, it, um, watched, he watched the, uh, the whole town, like kind of like couldn't get deconstructed because the South town was like leveled or something during some flood.
01:11:29.39
Steve Barnes
And the kissing bridge is where the skateboard kid and build in brow watch that happen and went, wow. So we're going to see that again.
01:11:39.15
lindsey
Okay, the movie theater. I don't know if the movie theater is in the books, but it's definitely in the movies, and we saw it in the, it's going to be in the trailer, and it's in the lead post from the from the pilot.
01:11:53.05
lindsey
Every town needs a movie theater, Steve.
01:11:55.76
Steve Barnes
I mean, I agree.
01:11:55.88
lindsey
So...
01:11:56.52
Steve Barnes
Why are you telling me? I agree with you.
01:12:01.01
Steve Barnes
This movie theater in Derry is the same one that Will and his um his son Mike saw that Rodan movie. that's That's where they talked about that at.
01:12:11.30
lindsey
That does make me curious because um in Durham, where I'm from, our movie theater has a balcony because it was segregated when it was built.
01:12:22.04
Steve Barnes
Right. Okay.
01:12:22.64
lindsey
So it does make me wonder if the movie theater had was segregated when it was built because of the town.
01:12:27.53
Steve Barnes
Sure.
01:12:27.94
lindsey
and Yeah.
01:12:29.27
Steve Barnes
We have one of those two in Richmond, Virginia. Yay.
01:12:32.50
lindsey
ah so yeah
01:12:32.88
Steve Barnes
The West Hampton theater.
01:12:34.82
lindsey
yeah Thankfully, they're not segregated anymore. Yeah.
01:12:37.90
Steve Barnes
That's right. We all know this.
01:12:41.83
lindsey
All right, the Derry Standpipe.
01:12:46.86
lindsey
The Standpipe is a large water tower and several children drowned in the tank at one point. So this is another bad thing to happen in Derry. Derry Standpipe, interestingly enough, is one of the real, is also a real thing that exists in Maine.
01:13:04.00
lindsey
And um like, I think it might even be called the Derry Standpipe, but ah um it's a standpipe. Stephen King finds it terrifying, obviously, because he put it in his books.
01:13:16.91
Steve Barnes
Is it that where Mike had his incident, his first incident with it as the bird?
01:13:17.09
lindsey
And I...
01:13:22.43
lindsey
ah Yeah, well, this is... He he sees the bird um in the at the standpipe, yes.
01:13:27.64
Steve Barnes
Okay. Yeah, I got it right. Okay.
01:13:29.12
lindsey
Yes. um We also have the drugstore. The drugstore is where Eddie got his inhalers. Yes.
01:13:36.80
Steve Barnes
Mr. Keene's drugstore now.
01:13:39.88
lindsey
And it's also where the Losers Club in the movie first meets Beverly because she's buying um she's buying tampons and the boys are buying and medical equipment to try to patch up Ben.
01:13:50.42
Steve Barnes
Okay.
01:13:57.49
lindsey
And Beverly has already met Ben and she um you know goes to hang out with him. But I do wonder if the drugstore is going to show up.
01:14:08.08
Steve Barnes
It's got to, I mean, it's, it's, it's shown up in multiple books as well.
01:14:12.67
lindsey
who
01:14:12.65
Steve Barnes
So, ah and Mr. Keene has shown up in multiple books. So I bet we're going to be seeing him in that name as well.
01:14:19.81
lindsey
All right, this next one, i think you might have some stuff to say, which is the Nibold house.
01:14:25.39
Steve Barnes
Sure. Everybody loves the Neibolt house. um Multiple bad things have happened there. And that's the original house when that colony of the first colony of 340 people got taken away.
01:14:39.84
Steve Barnes
um There was one particular house that was burnt completely to the ground, unexplainably, and Neibolt house... stands at that same spot.
01:14:52.15
Steve Barnes
Um, it's also, it was a transient house. It was near the bus station. Like when the, it was, it was like a newer town and people like would ride the train like, and they would just be stopping in dairy just for like a layover.
01:15:05.78
Steve Barnes
Um, transients and hobos would hang around the Neobolt house um because it was always vacant. No one ever wanted to live there. no one was ever clear who owned it.
01:15:17.10
Steve Barnes
It was just a house that you avoided. um We also skipped over the ironworks as well. The Kitchener ironworks, which I'm positive
01:15:25.37
lindsey
i guess we already I thought we already talked about the ironworks, but we can talk about it if you want.
01:15:28.26
Steve Barnes
we did talk about it, but it's a, you know, place in dairy.
01:15:29.58
lindsey
Mm-hmm.
01:15:31.22
Steve Barnes
i think we're going to see it again. And, um, one of the main reasons I wanted to bring it. Oh yeah. Because I'm sure we'll see it again because it comes up in 11, 22, 63, because, you know, Richie and Beverly, our name dropped. They, the, the main character of that book meets Richie and Beverly and,
01:15:51.92
Steve Barnes
And he stops by the iron works as well and talks about how creepy like this place is. And he was wondering, you know, what kind of place this could be a Stephen King readers were like, he, hee he, he, I know what this is, but yeah, it's fun.
01:16:08.87
lindsey
I wonder if that house, I wonder if this house is like the same one that was for, um,
01:16:18.41
lindsey
for the movie with Alfred Hitchcock. I'm sorry. I'm drawing a blank. This is terrible. Where's the the movie?
01:16:25.08
Steve Barnes
roomwidth Room with a view?
01:16:26.12
lindsey
No, the movie with the shower scene.
01:16:28.60
Steve Barnes
Psycho?
01:16:29.35
lindsey
Psycho. Yes. I wonder if it's the same house that was used in Psycho.
01:16:34.91
Steve Barnes
Wait, what what's the connection?
01:16:35.13
lindsey
Um,
01:16:36.91
Steve Barnes
i don't get it.
01:16:38.38
lindsey
I mean, on the movie set itself, not anything to do, there's no connection between those two.
01:16:41.01
Steve Barnes
Oh.
01:16:44.74
lindsey
um But it also is, entrance there's an entrance to the sewers in the Nibel house for some reason. So that's kind of weird.
01:16:52.58
Steve Barnes
The sewers lead, that's right. The, um, Neibolt house at one point was like a pump station for the sewers. Like there was like a pump station that was in there that was like quickly abandoned, like way back when.
01:16:59.61
lindsey
Mm-hmm.
01:17:04.83
Steve Barnes
So there's still like, you know, the sewers basically lead or can lead to the Neibolt house directly. Like that's how you can access the sewers without anybody really knowing.
01:17:17.59
lindsey
thought it also, thought the entrance to the Ironworks is also by the Nibel House. um
01:17:28.12
Steve Barnes
Not sure of the proximity.
01:17:28.30
lindsey
Yeah. Yeah. Because it's called the Well House.
01:17:33.38
Steve Barnes
Yes, that's right.
01:17:33.93
lindsey
Yeah. So it's the pump station, the Well House, right? And okay, so this next one, there's two more. So one um is the Derry Library.
01:17:46.45
Steve Barnes
Oh boy, Lindsay, ah you love it.
01:17:50.08
lindsey
the dairy library every town needs a library that's where mike hanlon hangs out now in the there was a little bit of little bit of a wrestling match i guess about who hangs out the library more you know mike or ben because in the second movie ben ben and is like the one the librarian some people were mad about that because that was mike's role to be the town of their historian
01:18:12.54
Steve Barnes
Yeah, dude, Mike, Mike, come on.
01:18:16.05
lindsey
Ben was the architect.
01:18:16.35
Steve Barnes
It's gotta be Mike.
01:18:17.49
lindsey
you know He didn't need to also be the librarian.
01:18:18.60
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
01:18:22.31
Steve Barnes
I mean, they're friends. They shouldn't fight about this or they should unite. Like both of them can be librarians, right? Wouldn't they love working together?
01:18:31.65
lindsey
Okay, and then the last one that's a place that is in the trailer that somehow is going to connect is Shawshank Prison.
01:18:41.45
Steve Barnes
Right. Yeah. Um, so how does that connect exactly? I'm trying to, it has nothing to do with the Mac reverse. because I'm thinking about the Shawshank redemption, of course, which has nothing to do with the Mac reverse.
01:18:52.80
lindsey
hu
01:18:55.48
Steve Barnes
It's not really like a, it does have a magical black character and and the, in the Shawshank redemption. So we're going to check that box, but no Mac reverse stuff is happening.
01:19:07.81
lindsey
I think it says that, I think in the copy, what I read is that Dick Halloran tells Mike Hanlon about
01:19:08.40
Steve Barnes
But I think,
01:19:18.46
lindsey
Shawshank and that there's a person there who's being held even though they are innocent. um
01:19:24.93
Steve Barnes
hmm.
01:19:25.62
lindsey
So yeah, I don't know. i don't i don't know, but I'm really curious because it's we they've been publicizing that there's two books that are connected to the series besides it. you know There's The Shining with Dick Halloran's character and then there's Shawshank.
01:19:44.26
lindsey
And um so... Somehow the Shawshank is being brought in it as a, as a location. Now I thought, I thought maybe, Oh, Henry Bowers is being held in Shawshank.
01:19:57.17
lindsey
Um, or that's, but he was in a mental, a mental, um, hospital, not a regular prison.
01:19:57.42
Steve Barnes
No, he was in, he's in the, uh, yeah, that's right.
01:20:05.59
Steve Barnes
So if there's somebody that's innocent, I'm guessing like somebody was framed for some Pennywise murders and ended up in Shawshank and... Maybe Dick Halloran is going to somehow help get them out somehow.
01:20:18.76
Steve Barnes
Like I see the tie into The Shining, obviously. Shawshank Prison is a place, so it's tied in here. We're going to have a character that's going to visit it because I think we saw the bus, right? The bus said Shawshank on the side of it.
01:20:28.93
lindsey
Mm-hmm.
01:20:33.95
Steve Barnes
112263 being in the same universe is interesting because the Mac reverse has time travel abilities. So I doubt that's going to come into play, but it's a possibility.
01:20:45.92
Steve Barnes
And then the dark tower, that's another book that is also directly tied in, but I do not see how that could have anything to do with this storyline. It would not fit at all.
01:20:57.34
Steve Barnes
So maybe an Easter egg, we might see like a Roland action figure or something, or perhaps like Abigail will like be in the background or something, but I don't see how they could tie it in.
01:21:10.83
lindsey
Yeah.
01:21:10.76
Steve Barnes
Shawshank, yes. What's the other one they're definitely tying in? The Shining with the hotel.
01:21:15.06
lindsey
The shining. Just remember everything with a SH.
01:21:19.38
Steve Barnes
Okay. All right. Steve Barnes as well.
01:21:24.30
lindsey
I'm wondering if somebody gets, you know, it's, is somebody going to get framed for the black spot, you know, or, you know, the wrong person gets framed for the, for the, for that fire.
01:21:32.03
Steve Barnes
Huh?
01:21:34.09
lindsey
ah Because I, yeah.
01:21:34.37
Steve Barnes
Andy.
01:21:35.69
lindsey
Yeah.
01:21:36.24
Steve Barnes
I think an Andy Dufresne himself might show up or one of these characters from the shocking Redemption.
01:21:39.72
lindsey
I think that was already debunked. I think somebody thought, oh, is it Andy Dufresne?
01:21:42.56
Steve Barnes
Okay. Okay.
01:21:45.03
lindsey
And they were like, no, the time-wise, it doesn't add up with when Andy Dufresne was in Shawshank. i don't
01:21:53.59
Steve Barnes
Oh, um dude, i'm looking forward to it.
01:21:54.33
lindsey
I can't remember. um But I just, I think it's it's going to be a fun show to kind of watch and see how it ah all unspools. Let's talk about these angry Redditors, Steve.
01:22:07.71
lindsey
Okay, we we so you sort of hinted at it um that Muschietti is off for using this plot of kids working together because that's what that's what the losers did right.
01:22:08.78
Steve Barnes
Okay.
01:22:11.87
Steve Barnes
Couple times.
01:22:19.55
lindsey
So how can they how can they do that again? you know Why are they reusing that plot? So what you were starting to tell me how you don't agree with that, or you do agree with that. I can't remember now which one it was.
01:22:32.48
Steve Barnes
and No, I think it kind of makes sense um because you they made such a big point about how seven and having seven people battle it is a really important number and a really important um number of people or individuals to to battle it or to face it.
01:22:51.82
Steve Barnes
So we got these four main guys or two guys, two gals. I I just really believe that they're going to be joined by Mike and Ray and rich, and they're going to be seven of them and they won't be the losers club, but it'd be like a quasi losers club, you know, like, um, they'll have their own little name.
01:23:08.37
lindsey
Mm-hmm.
01:23:11.31
Steve Barnes
i mean, i don't know there'll be losers or not. Cause they, I guess they will be, i don't know. um, But I know that like usually Pennywise, it likes to target, you know, kids that might be a more introverted, might have a more active imagination, ah might be more prone to things like, you know, ADHD or bipolar, um unique, um maybe not as you know, i don't know, disadvantaged perhaps.
01:23:43.06
Steve Barnes
That's like a ah target that he's going to go after because he, you know, he, he wants easy prey. He wants weakness. So he's going to try to go after easy targets. He's not going to go after the captain of the football team. Who's not scared of anything.
01:23:55.54
Steve Barnes
He's going to go after you know, the wimpy kids. They won't be called the losers club. We've already seen that. What would it be called? Um, let's see, 1962, the dorky, the dorky dorks.
01:24:03.73
lindsey
Dorks. I don't know. What did they...
01:24:10.41
lindsey
I mean, it didn't strike me that necessarily that those, the kids in the trailer were, looked dorky at all.
01:24:17.60
Steve Barnes
Me neither.
01:24:18.78
lindsey
So it is kind of interesting how it's how it's going to play out. I wish they would release the characters' full names. You know, there's on IMDb, all we have is we have Teddy, Phil, Lily, and Ronnie.
01:24:31.62
Steve Barnes
Oh.
01:24:34.51
Steve Barnes
Right.
01:24:34.83
lindsey
um But, you know, besides that, we just have the list of actors. And, you know, we know that Bill Skarsgård is returning as Pennywise.
01:24:40.04
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm.
01:24:44.73
lindsey
And then we know that ah Taylor Page plays Charlotte Hanlon and Chris Chuck plays Dick Halloran and Jovan Adepo plays Leroy Hanlon.
01:24:49.99
Steve Barnes
ah huh
01:24:57.34
lindsey
But yeah.
01:24:57.37
Steve Barnes
That's our man. That's our man. He played Benji from ah His Three Daughters. You remember that?
01:25:03.19
lindsey
Oh, well I put down, um he was in the movie Fences, ah Overlord, which is a movie I still haven't seen. I really want to. It's a ah fantasy ah Nazi picture where a guy is,
01:25:16.22
lindsey
ah so escaping from a Nazi prison, I believe, called Overlord.
01:25:19.77
Steve Barnes
Okay.
01:25:20.76
lindsey
And then Babylon, he was in that film. um Yeah, yeah.
01:25:25.03
Steve Barnes
I know him as Benji. You know, Natasha Lyonne's going to be mad at you that you don't remember her boyfriend because he was...
01:25:32.65
lindsey
I didn't realize that. Yeah, I didn't recognize that guy. He's been, he's played, he's played like um supporting characters, minor characters.
01:25:41.79
Steve Barnes
Right. Mostly. Yeah.
01:25:43.25
lindsey
So I don't, yeah, haven't, familiar with his name yet hu yeah and Chris Chalk is he was playing Dick Halloran was just he's born in Nashville North Carolina so you should just know that that he's a North Carolina boy
01:25:46.88
Steve Barnes
He's top building this though. This is like his big breakout.
01:26:03.33
Steve Barnes
I mean, I got some connections to these people too. Like Taylor Page, you play Charlotte Hanlon. She was in the Toxic Avenger, the the remake recently. um Joshua Oddkick, he's playing an unknown guy, but he was in The Long Walk, which just came out.
01:26:18.19
lindsey
Yes.
01:26:18.14
Steve Barnes
Another Stephen King property.
01:26:18.42
lindsey
Did you see The Long Walk?
01:26:20.20
Steve Barnes
I'm dying to see it. Have not seen it yet. I want to watch it on a treadmill.
01:26:23.40
lindsey
Okay.
01:26:24.54
Steve Barnes
I want to do it.
01:26:25.60
lindsey
Okay, I want to say something about him, all right? um Jack O'Jek, or however you say his name, The Long Walk, you're correct.
01:26:27.88
Steve Barnes
Okay. Yeah.
01:26:31.16
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm.
01:26:32.32
lindsey
i He is the only actor um that I think that says, like, he's in every episode. um A lot of these other characters...
01:26:45.85
lindsey
If you look at the credits now, sometimes IMDB credits are incorrect. We've already we've already established that.
01:26:50.45
Steve Barnes
That's right. That's right.
01:26:52.39
lindsey
But he's one of the top-billed characters. So I'm really curious.
01:26:55.32
Steve Barnes
that's right
01:26:56.38
lindsey
He's an indigenous young man. So i'm I'm kind of, I guess, are does that mean they're going to hang out with the um the indigenous people group at some point? Like they're going to bring them into that?
01:27:10.07
lindsey
I was look watching the trailer. I was like, okay, is he playing one of the army people? um Yeah, i was I was just curious.
01:27:16.65
Steve Barnes
It's unknown. He doesn't have a character name in IMDb. It just says unknown.
01:27:19.95
lindsey
Right.
01:27:21.58
Steve Barnes
Like Madeline Stowe is in this. Like, I loved her in 12 Monkeys. She's in this. She's a pretty big star, but she also plays an unknown character.
01:27:30.49
lindsey
Mm-hmm.
01:27:30.54
Steve Barnes
And um Oppenheimer, I know you loved Oppenheimer last year. um a dude from Oppenheimer is in this. James Remar plays General Shaw.
01:27:39.01
lindsey
Mm-hmm.
01:27:39.60
Steve Barnes
So those are my people. Those are the guys going to be looking at going, okay, I know y'all. And Lachlan Miller, one of the kids who plays Ray, he was in The Boys and The Madness, two shows which I really dug, really liked.
01:27:52.42
Steve Barnes
So these six people, and I guess Skarsgård too. I mean, he's great. All right. We love him. I'm going to like him too. But these are the people I'm looking forward to seeing. and
01:28:05.57
lindsey
Yeah. I will say overall, besides all this stuff, I think the vibes I'm getting from the trailer are, and again, I'm not, there was a show that was about the great migration.
01:28:21.95
lindsey
um That was a horror show. Did you watch that one, Steve?
01:28:24.99
Steve Barnes
Mm-mm, I don't think so.
01:28:26.28
lindsey
um Yeah. I can't remember the name now, but it was on.
01:28:31.08
Steve Barnes
The Great Migration?
01:28:33.49
lindsey
and No. But it's, it's like about a black family in the 1960s that moves to a new neighborhood. It's all white neighbors. And it's like the horror of being like, you know, here they are excited about buying this home.
01:28:46.20
lindsey
And then the neighbors slowly but surely start, you know, treating them really poorly. But it's um a horror lens. I can't remember the name of the series, but it was really good.
01:28:54.53
Steve Barnes
Okay.
01:28:56.41
lindsey
are I mean, I watched some of it and then got traumatized by the show. So I i didn't finish that one. Um, But it does, I think there's going to be a lot to do with like systemic racism in this one. is
01:29:08.55
Steve Barnes
Oh, absolutely. Yeah.
01:29:09.30
lindsey
Yeah. I mean, I've come to the end of my of my show notes here, Steve. So is there anything else you wanted to discuss? i I'm sure you always have something up your sleeve.
01:29:19.69
Steve Barnes
I mean, it seems like I do, but no, we've we've gone through everything. we've We've gone longer than I thought we would go to. So i'm ready I'm ready to wrap it up and start watching this show and start recapping it.
01:29:31.40
lindsey
Well, you were going to ask me what my form of Pennywise would be. Should we end it there?
01:29:34.64
Steve Barnes
Oh yeah. Cause I, I, I said that I was going to be, um, or um I wasn't going to be, I was going to be scared of a big giant, like yellow jacket or a wasp. And it was not even giant.
01:29:44.04
lindsey
Right.
01:29:44.96
Steve Barnes
Like if it was just like the size of a dog that would just scare the bejesus out of me and I would like freeze up. So what would Pennywise look like if he was going to come to your house and scare you in the middle of the night? What form would it take?
01:30:02.33
lindsey
Well, right now, I'm going to say that it would take the form of squirrels in my attic because i think there squirrels at my attic right now, Steve, and they're they're torturing me.
01:30:09.14
Steve Barnes
Oh,
01:30:15.68
lindsey
um
01:30:16.04
Steve Barnes
they're awful. We have squirrels in the attic of our garage and they wreak havoc.
01:30:17.01
lindsey
so
01:30:20.94
Steve Barnes
They will use everything to make their nests. I implore you to get animal control to get them out of there.
01:30:28.47
lindsey
I called animal control and they told me that nothing can get through and that it must be mice. So i'm I'm trying to get it work out, but I feel like that's bad.
01:30:37.19
Steve Barnes
Traps.
01:30:38.07
lindsey
But the other thing you might use for me again is what my, one of my greatest fears of life is dirty bathrooms.
01:30:38.66
Steve Barnes
Set traps.
01:30:46.32
lindsey
So I feel like if Pennywise was in the format of a giant, a giant toilet, that could be quite, or like a toilet that wall the keeps overflowing.
01:30:47.62
Steve Barnes
Oh.
01:30:56.19
lindsey
with like brown water, that would be terrible. You can chase the, yeah.
01:30:59.29
Steve Barnes
I mean, the super theme, that's perfect. I mean, he would love that. He loves you.
01:31:04.38
lindsey
That's right. I'm one of his perfect victims. Let's not talk about this anymore.
01:31:07.03
Steve Barnes
Yep.
01:31:08.98
lindsey
Cause I'm starting to get grossed out, but um yeah.
01:31:11.57
Steve Barnes
Let's talk about squirrel traps in your attic. Get them tomorrow.
01:31:19.24
lindsey
Well, Steve, this has been fun. i cannot, I'm looking forward to watching the show. starts in just a few days. And just a reminder that we as a pair are going to be recapping the episode.
01:31:31.88
lindsey
So look for Thursday. You'll be able to watch the show on Sunday. And then just four, five days later, you'll be able to watch a recap before that next episode comes in.
01:31:43.33
lindsey
So we hope you'll tune in for our notes.
01:31:43.93
Steve Barnes
That's right.
01:31:47.50
Steve Barnes
Our notes and my wife's wise ass comments. Cause she's going to be, she's going to be watching as well. And she always has funny comments that I'll bring to the table.
01:31:57.13
lindsey
And if you have wise-ass comments, you can send them sweetchildoftimepod at gmail.com.
01:32:07.92
Steve Barnes
Yeah, that's it.
01:32:09.57
lindsey
Oh, yay! I did it! Okay.
01:32:11.67
Steve Barnes
Perfect. First try.
01:32:13.77
lindsey
So what sort of sign-off should we have, Steve?
01:32:16.89
Steve Barnes
Um, ah something scary. Um, let's see. ah You have to think on my feet here. Um, I said, welcome to welcome to dairy. So maybe we can say, um, what's the opposite of welcome?
01:32:26.51
lindsey
Mm-hmm.
01:32:30.44
Steve Barnes
Like when you, I guess you say goodbye, right?
01:32:34.36
lindsey
Kicked out?
01:32:36.15
Steve Barnes
Goodbye to dairy, everyone from sweet shot of time. And one of my stories, goodbye to dairy. How's that?
01:32:45.24
lindsey
Goodbye to all those people I've trusted.
01:32:49.81
lindsey
what's that um i'm trying to quote a song here, but anyway. Thank you for joining us, and we'll see you soon.
01:32:57.54
Steve Barnes
Bye-bye.
01:32:58.52
lindsey
bye
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