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| Matilda Lawler as MARGE; Arian S. Cartaya as RICH |
Episode 5 picks up right where episode 4 left off with Hallorann believing he has extracted the pertinent information from Taniel. The military, represented by General Shaw, immediately organize a mission to send Hanlon and Hallorann down under the sewers with Colonel Fuller and an entourage to tighten the perimeter of pillars around It. Of course, this plan all goes all wrong, especially since Taniel left out some vital pieces of information. They didn't get everything. Somehow, he found the strength to block their attempts to rob all of his secrets. Visit our show landing page for all of our podcast recaps.
Meanwhile the kids organize their own rescue mission to bring poor Phil Malkin home. An exhausted Matty appears on top of the Standpipe inside his cozy yellow tent. He reveals he survived by watching Pennywise tear apart the other kids. Lilly galvanizes the group to brave the sewers using the aid of "mommy's little helper." This operation backfires when Matty is revealed to be Pennywise in disguise. There were no survivors. Pennywise does not keep kids alive for long.
Steve Barnes is guitarist for stoner metal band Introvoid, and also plays guitar for the cover band Rebecca Crow. All of Steve's stuff can be found at Sweetchildoftime.com.
Lindsey Dunn is a film critic with membership in both NC Film Critics and Southeastern Film Critics. She loves all things Cobra Kai, Netflix Dark, indie horror, and any stories about complicated relationships. You can find her at 1ofmystories.com and most social channels @1ofmystories.
Transcript of the episode
00:00:02.45
Lindsey Dunn
Hello and welcome to Welcome to Derry. I'm Lindsey Dunn, your host of the 1 of My Stories podcast. And with me today is your other host from the Sweet Child of Time podcast.
00:00:14.41
Lindsey Dunn
I'm hoping it's the real one and not a manifestation trying to kill me by preying on my greatest fears. It's Steve Barnes. Ahoy, Steve.
00:00:23.02
Steve Barnes
Ahoy, Lindsey. It's really me. I swear to God, it's really me. You know it's me because I just took three of my mommy's Valiums and I'm ready to hold hands.
00:00:36.00
Lindsey Dunn
I know, that was ah actually almost my intro was something about us holding hands. We're not holding hands.
00:00:43.58
Steve Barnes
Why not? They're so soft and subtle like Noxzema. Noxzema.
00:00:46.49
Lindsey Dunn
and Feels just like Noxzema and a baby, a what did he say? A kitten's belly? i could I can't remember what she said, it was very funny.
00:00:54.55
Steve Barnes
That's exactly what she said. Yes. There were an adorable little couple there.
00:00:57.14
Lindsey Dunn
yes
00:00:58.15
Steve Barnes
What a great way to start our show. Not even a minute in and we're reminiscing about those cute kids.
00:01:06.00
Lindsey Dunn
Um, so yes, we're here to recap a TV show. So here we are at episode five, which is called, i thought it was just called Nybolt street, but nay, it's 29 Nybolt street.
00:01:12.52
Steve Barnes
Yup.
00:01:18.90
Lindsey Dunn
It's very specific.
00:01:19.03
Steve Barnes
Oh, yes it is.
00:01:21.02
Lindsey Dunn
So what are your overall reactions to this episode?
00:01:25.18
Steve Barnes
Yeah, I think this episode could have been called Redemptions and Reunions. It would have been nice alliteration thing um because that's what I got out of this. I got a great redemption story. with with um Marge and I got some reunions with a couple of fellows, um somebody that's been long awaited. So that's a lot of fun.
00:01:44.73
Steve Barnes
um I mean, yeah, this was a little bit of a far fetched plot, this whole military thing. um little bit silly with some logistical problems, but I mean, the plots are all kind of coming together and this whole arc with Mrs. Kirsch and Hank Grogan, fitting into the main story really nicely.
00:02:06.78
Steve Barnes
I was having a lot of fun and loving it, even though there was a couple WTF moments where I kind of was like, um, what? But other than those moments, I was having a lot, even any of those moments where I was questioning what was happening, I was still having fun.
00:02:23.06
Steve Barnes
This was just a fun all around episode. Um, do you agree? Where are you thinking about this one?
00:02:29.56
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah, I thought this was another another wonderful episode. i was very swept up into the into the momentum of it.
00:02:40.09
Lindsey Dunn
ah
00:02:40.15
Steve Barnes
Right.
00:02:41.50
Lindsey Dunn
Some of the... Yeah, just... And it was but it was like a rollercoaster ride. There was a lot of misdirection. um there were some There were some detours.
00:02:51.26
Steve Barnes
right
00:02:55.00
Lindsey Dunn
I kind of thought we were going to go into the... It just didn't play out the way I thought. you know I knew we were going to go into the sewers and that the military were going to go looking for these pillars and I knew Pennywise was supposed to show up.
00:03:12.25
Steve Barnes
Right.
00:03:12.41
Lindsey Dunn
ah But I didn't really expect for there to be this detour for Dick Halloran where he kind of left the main plot for a bit
00:03:18.90
Steve Barnes
Sure.
00:03:20.86
Lindsey Dunn
So we had we had a lot of stuff going on. There were a lot of arms and legs going on, as as my old one of my old bosses used to say. Got a lot of arms and legs going on. ah But it it came together very nicely, and there were some sad moments. There were some funny moments.
00:03:41.08
Lindsey Dunn
i I thought it was great. If you look really closely, yes, you can find flaws with anything. But I was just wrapped up in the experience of watching the show and wondering what's going to happen next.
00:03:57.37
Steve Barnes
Yeah, um I can second almost all of that. i think Reed, maybe we talked to Reed. I wonder if you like the pacing better of this episode. Cause like you said, this one really, I mean, from scene to scene there was, I didn't think there was any drag at all. It, you know, just kept moving forward and what a fun misdirection at the beginning here. When we, when we see that, that young Maddie come out of that tent, that was just a really exciting moment.
00:04:26.20
Steve Barnes
And even though he looked so ghostly and pale, I think he fooled most of the audience with that. He fooled me for sure. Even though I noted how pale he was. I mean, that was real.
00:04:37.28
Steve Barnes
I mean, that was a fun misdirect for the whole audience, especially with him saying that Phil's alive and I could just see all those Reddit nerds like I knew it. I knew it. And, and my daughter.
00:04:48.78
Lindsey Dunn
Stevie, it's funny that you mentioned the Reddit nerds because I was picturing you saying, because you mentioned, you know, you thought, we had a discussion about if Maddie was alive, and I was thinking, oh man, and Steve's going to have a field day with this when he tells me how right he was and how wrong I was.
00:04:57.07
Steve Barnes
hmm. Yes.
00:05:10.10
Lindsey Dunn
But.
00:05:10.36
Steve Barnes
Right, right.
00:05:10.44
Lindsey Dunn
That's it.
00:05:12.02
Steve Barnes
i was having fun with that, especially with the whole Phil thing. I don't know if you remember back in, um I think it was episode three. i was talking about
00:05:21.94
Steve Barnes
um me and my daughter Charlotte watching the first two episodes together. And she made this bold prediction from the get go. She's like, oh, Maddie is Pennywise. I know right now Maddie is Pennywise. He's really Pennywise. How right she was.
00:05:46.60
Lindsey Dunn
Well, she was right and she was wrong.
00:05:49.82
Steve Barnes
she was right. If she saw that scene with, with doing the pole dance and Maddie turning to Pennywise, you know, that she would slap me in the face and say, I told you dad. yeah
00:06:01.52
Lindsey Dunn
Right, but in episode one, that wasn't Pennywise.
00:06:05.27
Steve Barnes
it was not, but you know, she got her comeuppance though.
00:06:06.42
Lindsey Dunn
Right.
00:06:08.27
Steve Barnes
I got to hand it to her.
00:06:10.14
Lindsey Dunn
But will say it's set up this nice idea now that Pennywise can take over anybody.
00:06:20.95
Lindsey Dunn
um
00:06:21.21
Steve Barnes
Sure.
00:06:21.88
Lindsey Dunn
And we've talked about a particular character, that being Ingrid, And, you know, the fact that she's nice now, and then if if she's indeed the Mrs.
00:06:26.33
Steve Barnes
h h
00:06:35.06
Lindsey Dunn
Kirsch we see later with at Beverly's house, it's set up this continuity now that somebody that is a nice person could become a villain by the end because Pennywise can take on the form of anybody who's dead, apparently.
00:06:36.73
Steve Barnes
Right.
00:06:53.21
Steve Barnes
Right. Yeah. Maybe anybody who's, I mean, he can't take, or i don't know if he can take over the form of anybody who's alive. He took over Marge's, in their minds he can, because he took over Marge last episode.
00:06:59.64
Lindsey Dunn
Have we seen that?
00:07:05.62
Steve Barnes
She thought that it was inside of her body and she was turning into a snail or something. So, it's almost like his powers are endless in a way.
00:07:13.78
Lindsey Dunn
And I'm trying to think of, yeah, I'm trying to think of the people we've seen though, if they've had a vision of something, has that person always been dead? You know, that, that would be a good, a good thing to study closely and kind of, yeah.
00:07:26.71
Steve Barnes
Yeah, sure.
00:07:28.38
Lindsey Dunn
But, uh, Well, let's talk about, I'm curious with the Maddie appearance.
00:07:34.20
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
00:07:34.62
Lindsey Dunn
Take me through your journey with that. at what
00:07:38.49
Steve Barnes
Okay.
00:07:39.03
Lindsey Dunn
At what point in the plot did you track that there was something off with Maddie?
00:07:46.78
Steve Barnes
um It was when they were all getting loopy on the Valium and everybody had their moment.
00:07:51.29
Lindsey Dunn
Right.
00:07:53.66
Steve Barnes
And then Maddie turns around and says, we're almost there. And he seems completely normal. And I was like, uh-o um that's what that was my first inkling.
00:07:58.63
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
00:08:02.71
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. that Me too. that was That was the moment that, I mean, and now that I go back and I look, there's some other signs that show up.
00:08:05.24
Steve Barnes
Okay.
00:08:10.30
Steve Barnes
Yes, there are. Right.
00:08:11.54
Lindsey Dunn
ah But the way that I was excusing it in my mind is this guy is so terrified that it doesn't matter. You know, he's so hopped up on fear.
00:08:20.02
Steve Barnes
right
00:08:22.12
Lindsey Dunn
But out of all the kids, he was the only one that wasn't acting like he had just gotten Novocaine at the dentist. so
00:08:30.23
Steve Barnes
Yeah, that's right. And how pale he was in the beginning, watching it the second time, it looks very obvious. But then, you know, the watching it the first time you're like, oh, this kid is near death and he's been in the sewers for three months, three months or something.
00:08:43.80
Lindsey Dunn
Right, he hasn't had sunlight.
00:08:46.22
Steve Barnes
So you're kind of excusing the fact that he's so pale and gross looking.
00:08:46.49
Lindsey Dunn
who
00:08:50.02
Steve Barnes
It kind of makes sense with the plot.
00:08:52.98
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. I also, the other thing that might have been a visible tell, maybe not, is his hair. that, um and I'm thinking about how, you know, he wasn't exactly the most fashionable kid, but his, you, again, it's in something you could excuse.
00:09:09.61
Steve Barnes
Right.
00:09:12.38
Lindsey Dunn
Oh, he's been away and in the sewer, so he hasn't had a haircut, but it did, it did seem like his hair all a sudden came, became quite long.
00:09:16.28
Steve Barnes
right
00:09:24.05
Steve Barnes
Okay. Yeah. did I, that didn't, that actually made sense to me because he does, he disappeared on new year's Eve or winter time.
00:09:24.63
Lindsey Dunn
Um,
00:09:28.07
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm.
00:09:32.89
Steve Barnes
And now, it seems like it's summertime. They're riding bikes with short sleeve shirts on and they're in Maine.
00:09:38.81
Lindsey Dunn
Right.
00:09:39.42
Steve Barnes
So, you know, that, that's, that didn't really throw me through a loop, the hair thing.
00:09:43.54
Lindsey Dunn
and Okay.
00:09:44.02
Steve Barnes
What I thought is,
00:09:44.47
Lindsey Dunn
I guess, yeah.
00:09:45.69
Steve Barnes
He looked like a young Jack White to me because Jack White's very pale, has that same haircut, kind of has a very similar face. that's rob That's where I was going with this kid. Give him some rock star cred.
00:09:56.44
Lindsey Dunn
Okay. Yeah. it would It would have been funny if his hair had turned red Then, yeah, then that'd be sort of a little more obvious, I guess.
00:10:10.34
Lindsey Dunn
Okay, so sounds like we had some feedback.
00:10:14.84
Steve Barnes
Yeah, we got a little bit of feedback on my end here. um fellow named Brian K hit me up on the Discord just with some some kind words. And he was listening to us when we were doing 100 Years of Solitude. You and I were doing that on these very podcasts, Lindsey, a couple years ago. He's looking forward to season two when we do that.
00:10:34.81
Steve Barnes
And he just says that I'm blessed with great co-hosts. That means you, Lindsey. So, hey, I'm blessed with some Lindsey.
00:10:41.45
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm.
00:10:44.31
Steve Barnes
ah That was Brian K. And then we had um an individual on Reddit. um um' I'm guessing she's a female. You can't harm a good woman. That's what their title is. And they hit us up with with a lot of words here. And I'm just going to kind of condense it down to um They predicted that the great swirling apparatus, because they answered some of our questions that we asked last episode. um According to them, that's the deadlights. they They consider the deadlights to be the great swirling apparatus. Don't know if they're right or they're wrong, but I mean, it's something to think about.
00:11:18.97
Steve Barnes
I love this speculation that she gave us. She talks about the ah the iron fence around the well house at 29 Neobolt Street. And they have those iron spikes on the top of fences to stop kids from jumping over your fence.
00:11:36.73
Steve Barnes
And she said the shards are part of the meteorite that has been entrapping it before it fell to earth. And the idea is only those shards can defeat it. And it part two, Beverly gives Eddie one of those tines from the iron fence and tells Eddie that this kills monsters.
00:11:55.13
Steve Barnes
So they were speculating that, that that could have been potentially one of the shards and trapping Galoo, maybe symbolizing one of those shards. pasa In my opinion, maybe that's where Andy Muschietti started getting this crazy idea about the shards. Cause it's a, it's a Muschietti thing.
00:12:12.98
Steve Barnes
Is that, that, that is correct. Right. That was, I'm asking you because I've read the books and these shards were not part of the books. It all is part of the movie. Correct.
00:12:23.59
Steve Barnes
Lindsey.
00:12:25.34
Lindsey Dunn
Well, that, yes, that's the first time I saw them, but I've only read the book once.
00:12:30.30
Steve Barnes
Okay.
00:12:30.39
Lindsey Dunn
So if if if we're wrong about that, then, then let us, let us know.
00:12:33.30
Steve Barnes
Well, I just read the book. So the shards are definitely not in there. Um, but yeah, they were speculating that that shard from the movie could be carried over here.
00:12:43.86
Steve Barnes
And then their last point was they, they disagree with some of what we said about Ronnie. We didn't really, we said that she didn't have much to do and they basically wrapped it up and they said that there's a dynamic that plays out in reality, believing black girls and black women. Um,
00:13:00.54
Steve Barnes
So, you know, they wanted to make that point that that's something that they saw that they resonated with last episode, that they saw Ronnie as not being believed or listened to. And that's representative of culture perhaps.
00:13:14.10
Steve Barnes
um So yeah, that's a lot that they threw on us there. um and We had a third um Discord user that I'm sorry, I did not write down their name and I only bring them up because You know, they they said that we're doing a great job, but they also gave some props to Reed from last week.
00:13:32.30
Steve Barnes
And they said they really enjoyed Reed and his fear of fear of God and his appearance on our show. So that's also worth mentioning.
00:13:38.54
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
00:13:39.52
Steve Barnes
Thank you again, Reed.
00:13:41.22
Lindsey Dunn
Everybody loves Reed!
00:13:42.86
Steve Barnes
it's My wife did too. I told you.
00:13:48.58
Lindsey Dunn
Yep, he's a great guest and a great host for his own show. We're
00:13:53.18
Steve Barnes
Maybe he'll invite us back on his show sometime to watch what it part three. ah
00:13:59.30
Lindsey Dunn
not begging. We're just asking.
00:14:01.72
Steve Barnes
ah but
00:14:02.62
Lindsey Dunn
Well, thank you for everybody who wrote in comments. were we're We're glad to hear people listening. I also heard from Deb who um you know she just was telling me that she appreciated the shout out we gave her and that she thought that was, it was nice that we had included her in our discussion.
00:14:22.30
Lindsey Dunn
so I was like, yes, of course, send us more thoughts and we'll include them as well.
00:14:26.14
Steve Barnes
yeah We just did it again and you didn't even say anything. So there you go, Deb.
00:14:33.34
Lindsey Dunn
Okay. um Yeah. I want to make, I guess I want to speak back about the Ronnie thing. Our people, our comments, I feel like our comments about Ronnie really didn't have anything to do with, against her, it's more what the show gave her to do.
00:14:53.82
Lindsey Dunn
And, you know, that race is definitely an issue that comes up in this show.
00:14:54.46
Steve Barnes
yes
00:15:00.02
Lindsey Dunn
And I feel, um you know, some what what was what you want to of what you want to avoid for sure is you don't want their whole storyline to be about their race.
00:15:11.42
Lindsey Dunn
But that definitely is an aspect that we have to consider that um I did see, for instance, some ah discussion on different posts about people being kind of annoyed that Ronnie feels like her problems are worse than Lily's problems.
00:15:14.94
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm.
00:15:29.42
Lindsey Dunn
For instance, you know, when she's telling her, you got to tell, you got to tell them about my dad and Liz like, but they'll send me back. And it kind of looked to people like, oh,
00:15:40.09
Lindsey Dunn
Ronnie just cares about her situation. She doesn't care about Lily's, but because she's, you know, she's the marginalized person in this situation. And if Lily goes to the hospital, she might not be treated very nicely, but she's not going to be killed the same as Hank Grogan is for going to an electric chair, you know, by death by an electric chair.
00:16:04.50
Lindsey Dunn
So,
00:16:05.37
Steve Barnes
Right. And plus, I mean, to your point, if Lily ends up going to Juniper Hill for an extended stay, then she's no help to Ronnie whatsoever. So it takes her off the playing field.
00:16:14.33
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. Yeah. Okay, with that, let's move into our Kitchener Ironworks Easter egg hunt.
00:16:23.46
Steve Barnes
All right. Yeah, they didn't really give us a ton. i think... A lot of things that people might think were Easter eggs were big plot points this week.
00:16:33.78
Steve Barnes
So they don't really count.
00:16:34.47
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm.
00:16:35.30
Steve Barnes
So I think we, we kind of, we shook hands and we agreed, Lindsey, that our Easter eggs are just going to be strictly Easter eggs, meaning that they're going to be background items that people might have missed, like in the true sense of the word.
00:16:40.01
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm.
00:16:51.06
Steve Barnes
Right.
00:16:52.12
Lindsey Dunn
Or I would say it doesn't have to be a background item, but it it's something that connects to another another book or a series that...
00:17:04.95
Lindsey Dunn
And also, i would say we don't want to keep repeating the same Easter eggs over and over again.
00:17:09.72
Steve Barnes
Right. Exactly.
00:17:10.87
Lindsey Dunn
Like, we've already mentioned that there's red balloons or there's turtles.
00:17:14.90
Steve Barnes
Right.
00:17:15.06
Lindsey Dunn
So there's no need... to do it again, unless we learn something new about the turtle or a new aspect of the book that wasn't brought into it before.
00:17:21.56
Steve Barnes
Sure.
00:17:22.76
Lindsey Dunn
Um, but I also want to say that I think it's a good sign maybe that we're not, they're not spending as much time on Easter eggs because that means we're getting into the meat, you know, we're getting, getting these meaty episodes.
00:17:35.67
Steve Barnes
ah Okay.
00:17:37.21
Lindsey Dunn
so they know that people, they want people to be invested in the story. So they know they're not going to be sitting there going, Oh, look at this or over here. um Yeah, so that's just me.
00:17:48.33
Steve Barnes
They're still doing it they're still doing it a little bit, though. A little bit.
00:17:51.35
Lindsey Dunn
Yes. All right, so what what's your first one?
00:17:54.84
Steve Barnes
um Mrs. Kirsch's kitchen. We get another glimpse of that fabled picture of Bob Gray and his daughter sitting um by the, what do you call it? The clown clown car thingy. So that same picture that we saw in It Part 2, we see it once again in her kitchen.
00:18:13.74
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm. They might as well just start selling copies of it.
00:18:17.21
Steve Barnes
Yeah, why not?
00:18:17.69
Lindsey Dunn
You gave us a souvenir.
00:18:18.21
Steve Barnes
I'd buy one.
00:18:22.21
Lindsey Dunn
So my I put my first one as Maddie's yellow tent as an Easter egg.
00:18:27.16
Steve Barnes
Okay. How's that an Easter egg?
00:18:29.53
Lindsey Dunn
Well, because yes, some people sleep in tents, but where else do you see tents?
00:18:36.49
Steve Barnes
Circus?
00:18:36.95
Lindsey Dunn
At the circus. Yeah.
00:18:38.14
Steve Barnes
Okay, all right.
00:18:38.79
Lindsey Dunn
but and it did I thought it was sort of a clever tell right at the very beginning that This was not a normal Maddie sighting, but it was, it wasn't something, ah it wasn't something really obvious.
00:18:51.67
Steve Barnes
Okay.
00:18:55.78
Lindsey Dunn
I thought it was nice and in the background, they also gave it a nice Dutch angle. It was at the creepy angle that it's not.
00:19:03.54
Steve Barnes
That's true. That's true.
00:19:06.33
Lindsey Dunn
And, um but yeah, I think that when you, during this the Francis flashback in 1908, when the man,
00:19:06.52
Steve Barnes
But a I...
00:19:15.16
Lindsey Dunn
when the man leads him into the tent. It's a yellow tent. So it was it was kind of a way to reference that this is a clown without without um saying that or being real obvious about it.
00:19:19.91
Steve Barnes
Okay.
00:19:26.61
Steve Barnes
Okay.
00:19:29.30
Steve Barnes
I will counter that and just let you know that we have seen that tent in every episode so far because we've been in the standpipe every episode and that tent's been there the whole time.
00:19:39.80
Lindsey Dunn
Right, but you haven't paid attention to it really up until now.
00:19:44.06
Steve Barnes
Okay. All right. and I have, but it's it's definitely something that needs to be mentioned because it hasn't been mentioned yet.
00:19:45.11
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
00:19:50.70
Steve Barnes
And it's this is the first time it's come into play.
00:19:51.24
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
00:19:54.19
Steve Barnes
So it's come it's come to life this episode.
00:19:55.35
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
00:19:57.53
Steve Barnes
So I'll give it to you, yo. um Yeah, I've only got really one more besides like all the major stuff that happened in the story. um That is they discussed the Paul Bunyan statue in this episode and the protesting crowd is really getting riled up.
00:20:15.74
Steve Barnes
um They talked about an individual that tried to chop off one of his legs with a chainsaw. So an axe.
00:20:22.74
Lindsey Dunn
An axe.
00:20:24.41
Steve Barnes
Okay, there you go. So yeah, that's that's my second one is that that's it's starting to, it was in the background, so you really could have missed um that story, but it was there in the background.
00:20:34.58
Steve Barnes
And that's the last one that I have.
00:20:39.01
Lindsey Dunn
I had the well that they went down. that That's the same you know well from the Losers Club.
00:20:45.52
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm.
00:20:47.35
Lindsey Dunn
um
00:20:47.54
Steve Barnes
Yes. Yes.
00:20:49.34
Lindsey Dunn
That's that place where Henry attacks... um attacks Mike Hanlon with the sheep gun.
00:20:57.85
Steve Barnes
Yep.
00:20:58.17
Lindsey Dunn
um The only other one I had was Dick and the bathtub. um I just thought it was kind of a nice tie-in with The Shining because Danny keeps seeing his creepy people in a bathroom.
00:21:10.36
Steve Barnes
I thought so too. Mm-hmm.
00:21:17.27
Lindsey Dunn
So that seems to be a fresh, I mean, we know bathrooms are are a big deal in Derry. Bathrooms are the size of a day.
00:21:25.02
Steve Barnes
Everybody hears dead people from the drains, yeah.
00:21:27.48
Lindsey Dunn
yeah But it did connect to The Shining and and that book as well.
00:21:32.18
Steve Barnes
did you Did you almost expect because Dick comes up out of the bathtub and he's all like shivering and stuff, and then like we see a woman's hand?
00:21:40.35
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm.
00:21:40.47
Steve Barnes
I was almost thinking that it was going to be the woman from room 237. That was my first instinct thought, was that it was going to be a direct shining tie-in, and he was going to be in the room with that woman. So I was relieved to see it was Grandma. She's so nice.
00:21:57.18
Lindsey Dunn
i I don't know if I was relieved but ah yeah I feel grandma was both you know she was better than grandpa but grandma is ah connection to grandpa so I feel she's kind of creepy
00:22:02.52
Steve Barnes
For grandma, yeah.
00:22:16.79
Steve Barnes
like When we get to that section later on, i got some some feedback for you then.
00:22:21.46
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. I mean, I would have liked, it would have been neat if he came up with the bathtub and he saw Danny, you know, that would have been cool. Like, cause you've mentioned the overlook hotel and that he might be able to see into the future.
00:22:30.69
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:22:34.81
Steve Barnes
Right. Yes.
00:22:35.35
Lindsey Dunn
it would be nice if he, he, and you know, he was given advice by Danny who got to return the favor or something, but no.
00:22:38.33
Steve Barnes
Oh.
00:22:43.18
Steve Barnes
Prophetic.
00:22:43.64
Lindsey Dunn
No, he's going to go reenter his childhood trauma. Okay.
00:22:48.12
Steve Barnes
Why not? That's what it's all about, I guess.
00:22:51.16
Lindsey Dunn
hu Okay. Well, I think from here, since those are our those were our very small Easter eggs, Easter egg hunt was tough this year.
00:23:02.58
Steve Barnes
Was.
00:23:03.00
Lindsey Dunn
um So let's move on to character arcs.
00:23:08.63
Steve Barnes
Sounds good to me. You got them grouped up really nicely this week. Um, cause it seems like there are like some nice compact groups more so than last week.
00:23:11.90
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. Yeah.
00:23:16.46
Lindsey Dunn
huh Right. So the first grouping is going to be Hank, Ingrid, and Stan Kirsch, the butcher.
00:23:24.76
Steve Barnes
Yes. Yes. Yeah. Ingrid Marsh. I'm sorry. Ingrid Kirsch. Sorry. Is confirmed as a real person this week. We actually see her talking to other people besides just Lily. Um, her husband, Stan Kirsch is not as friendly as we once believed. Um,
00:23:44.47
Steve Barnes
Turns out Ingrid was the woman that Hank was involved with. And because of an unexpected bus crash towards the end of our episode, Hank ends up being free back with Ingrid and looking for a cool spot to hide in the future. a spot, a black spot, perhaps.
00:24:11.96
Lindsey Dunn
Okay. Okay. Very clever.
00:24:13.18
Steve Barnes
But yeah, one just I wanted to start with Stan though.
00:24:13.80
Lindsey Dunn
Very clever.
00:24:15.70
Steve Barnes
Like, do you remember when we first met him and he was so cool and nice and he seemed so open-minded to Charlotte, but then he said that the kids call him Stan the Cleaver, which sounds kind of sinister, right?
00:24:28.51
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm. Yes.
00:24:29.27
Steve Barnes
I think we met Stan the Cleaver this episode. We met his alter ego.
00:24:34.26
Lindsey Dunn
Right. Well, we all know that Sometimes you're nicer to people at work than you are your own family. But hopefully the difference isn't quite this.
00:24:42.76
Steve Barnes
A a total Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde situation with this guy.
00:24:51.51
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah, Stan was dan was interesting. He wanted his steak not overcooked.
00:24:58.07
Steve Barnes
hu Bloody.
00:24:59.38
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. But yeah, i he did recognize Lily, though, as he said Terry Bainbridge's kid. So he hasn't he's not totally far gone yet.
00:25:13.96
Lindsey Dunn
He's not totally in the weeds yet.
00:25:14.70
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm.
00:25:15.48
Lindsey Dunn
But, you know, she ye you said she was confirmed to be a real person. But if the only if you're saying if you're saying the proof is she talked to Stan, are we sure Stan is a real person?
00:25:31.16
Steve Barnes
Well, she talked to Charlotte. She talked to Hank. She talked to the guard at the, uh, at the military base.
00:25:34.78
Lindsey Dunn
That's true. Okay. Hmm. so
00:25:38.28
Steve Barnes
She had to give ID there. So yeah, she's actually like a living, breathing human person. Unlike last week when we weren't quite sure. But we're so we're still not sure of her motivation, though. Like, if you talk to my wife, Heather, she would say, yeah, this woman's great. She's given great advice to Lily. She gave her the turtle, you know, bracelet. She told her to stay away from the sewers.
00:26:04.57
Steve Barnes
Um, you know, she's given Lily milk instead of like the gross town water that contains evil particles. So like in Heather's mind, like she's a hundred percent like a saint, like she's sent by Maturin the turtle or something where I kind of think the exact opposite.
00:26:24.21
Steve Barnes
I'm thinking like she's using reverse psychology on Lily by making her promise not to go into the sewers because, you know, kids, you know, want to do the opposite of what adults tell them.
00:26:35.29
Steve Barnes
I think that she tells Lily like the right things. Absolutely. But she never really like out, except for the part where she says, stay away from the sewers. Other than that, she doesn't really ever give her like direct advice.
00:26:49.84
Steve Barnes
She's just a kind person to Lily. This whole Bob gray connection is really telling to me and to Heather. It's not, but to me, i mean, should, should, can I recap the whole Bob gray like story? Cause I don't think we have ever done this. Have we?
00:27:09.88
Lindsey Dunn
no, i don't think so.
00:27:12.60
Steve Barnes
Like Bob Gray was just a regular dude. He was a regular circus performer back in the late 1800s. And his his circus persona, his clown, was Pennywise the Clown, is what he called himself. And he was just a regular dude, um portrayed by Bill Skarsgård in the movie It. But even so, he was just a regular guy who was you know who was a clown in the circus.
00:27:37.66
Steve Barnes
When it viewed Pennywise and how much he enraptured the crowd and how much the kids liked slash feared him because of like his demeanor, like it took over the persona of Pennywise the clown also taking over Bob Gray.
00:27:57.08
Steve Barnes
and making Bob gray kind of like this gray figure, not quite human. And Bob gray had a daughter, Mrs. Mrs. um umm I'm sorry. Ingrid is his daughter, Ingrid gray. and she eventually became Ingrid Kirsch.
00:28:12.22
Steve Barnes
And I'm thinking because of her association with Bob gray and with Pennywise that she is still a Pennywise type figure. And it's,
00:28:23.06
Steve Barnes
telling that the kids go down to the sewer the same time the military does. And it's almost like she could be partly involved in that push in a way. So I do think that she's evil.
00:28:36.02
Steve Barnes
Heather thinks that she's Heather thinks that she's good and that she will become evil and taken over by Pennywise at a later time that we haven't seen that happen yet.
00:28:36.31
Lindsey Dunn
How do you feel?
00:28:46.34
Steve Barnes
Like right now in Heather's mind, she's a normal woman that is about to be taken over by Pennywise in the future.
00:28:53.72
Lindsey Dunn
that's That's where I am too.
00:28:55.38
Steve Barnes
That's where you are too. Okay.
00:28:57.27
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
00:28:57.34
Steve Barnes
Um, I just think the way that they've, um, portrayed her as really mysterious and given us this question, it's deliberate. It's deliberate that we didn't find out until this episode, like who she actually is.
00:29:12.92
Steve Barnes
So I think it's more than a misdirect. Um, and she's the perfect age as well. Like this is just an aside. um, The actress who plays her, Madeline Stowe?
00:29:25.90
Steve Barnes
That's right.
00:29:25.91
Lindsey Dunn
Yes.
00:29:27.33
Steve Barnes
She's 67 years old. Like, that's how old she is. So that's how old Miss Kirsch potentially is as well. If that's the case, then she was born in 1895, which would make her 12 or 13 years old in 1908, the same time that Francis Shaw and Rose are hanging around, and they're 12 13 at that time, too.
00:29:52.92
Steve Barnes
So I'm kind of thinking that just as an aside, that when we get to that season, when we start watching the 1908 stuff that we're going to be seeing like a little kid Ingrid running around too.
00:30:08.18
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah, i mean, you said you kind of said a lot there, Steve. I don't know if I have much more to add. um I feel like it was a lot less unclear because she you know she outright says, don't go. Promise me you're not going to go. And yeah, she could have been misdirectioned, but what's-his-face didn't do that. Maddie didn't do that. Pennywise is Maddie.
00:30:31.77
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm.
00:30:32.02
Lindsey Dunn
Also, do we think Pennywise is
00:30:37.37
Lindsey Dunn
I'm
00:30:40.73
Lindsey Dunn
i trying to think of the word to this, but is able to possess more than one person at the same time.
00:30:52.57
Steve Barnes
Yes. I think we saw that this episode, as a matter of fact, because he has to clock a bunch of different people's fears. The two soldiers feared uncle Sam apparently, and like Lily fears her dad and the kids fear Pennywise.
00:31:07.55
Steve Barnes
So yeah, I do think that he can, he can divide and conquer.
00:31:10.65
Lindsey Dunn
So, and so counterpoint, the soldiers happened.
00:31:14.55
Steve Barnes
Okay.
00:31:17.53
Lindsey Dunn
And then the thing with Lily seeing her dad was after. So I think once in the sewers, and there's a difference between like people have talked about this way with God too, that God's our all powerful, all knowing he can be everywhere at once.
00:31:30.58
Steve Barnes
Okay.
00:31:32.92
Lindsey Dunn
Like Satan's is not that way. He can only be, he doesn't have the same power level as God. And so, I wonder with Pennywise, if he was spending time being Maddie, could he have also been um this other person at the same time?
00:31:50.97
Steve Barnes
Oh, okay. Sure.
00:31:52.63
Lindsey Dunn
um Because he was in Maddie's body a long time, right?
00:31:56.28
Steve Barnes
Right.
00:31:56.60
Lindsey Dunn
um
00:31:57.21
Steve Barnes
Yes.
00:31:57.78
Lindsey Dunn
But it could be more that, it could have been that the evil person in this case was ah was originally Stan Kirsch. And then it looks kind of like in their household, there's borderline abuse going on or possibility of abuse.
00:32:10.94
Steve Barnes
Oh, yeah.
00:32:12.92
Lindsey Dunn
And it could be that he's originally the bad guy, but then Ingrid gets possessed later, um, or killed. And so then Pennywise is free to enter her body as a vessel like he can.
00:32:26.68
Lindsey Dunn
So I did, I just felt like it was more evidence that she was on the side of right.
00:32:26.96
Steve Barnes
Hmm.
00:32:30.86
Steve Barnes
That's good point.
00:32:33.40
Lindsey Dunn
um The only thing that makes me give pause to that then is that I was wondering if you were slightly suspicious of the fact that the bus that was carrying Hank Grogan just happened to be in a car wreck and now he's on the loose.
00:32:35.51
Steve Barnes
yeah
00:32:49.05
Steve Barnes
Right.
00:32:53.02
Steve Barnes
oh it was... Yeah, it didn't just happen because Hank himself said that it was it was really weird and creepy the way that it happened. He said it was it was unusual. So Hank tells us himself that it it was not just a normal car crash.
00:33:07.83
Steve Barnes
Absolutely, it was involved in that.
00:33:07.96
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah, what it what did what what else did he say? He said it was just creepy and weird. I mean.
00:33:16.63
Steve Barnes
He said, I don't remember his exact words, but you know, she said what happened.
00:33:18.74
Lindsey Dunn
Okay.
00:33:21.47
Steve Barnes
And he said, i don't know. i can't explain it. It was crazy. Um, and I definitely got the vibe that it wasn't just a car crash. Um, just based on his words, which I cannot remember his exact words right now.
00:33:35.10
Lindsey Dunn
Right. So it makes me think, that I guess then that sort of feels like, oh, well, who would be responsible for that crash happening?
00:33:45.22
Steve Barnes
I,
00:33:45.45
Lindsey Dunn
Okay.
00:33:46.01
Steve Barnes
I do think it's a divide and conquer thing. I think it has a lot of powers, but it is okay. Here's I'm going to play devil's advocate with myself now. Um, because like you said, it does have boundaries. It cannot cross. It has like these pillars that it's trapped within. So it does have limitations. It's not God-like.
00:34:08.41
Steve Barnes
Um, and saying that, that kind of, um, freeze Mrs. Kirsch from actually being evil because she, she's not bound by the pillars.
00:34:21.75
Steve Barnes
She goes to the military base and she's fine. Like, so I think, I think I just realized this as you were talking before.
00:34:25.25
Lindsey Dunn
Hmm.
00:34:31.29
Steve Barnes
So, um, you know, I mean, I could be wrong about that. maybe it falls more to like, she's going to turn evil later. I do think her husband though, Stan, I think he's just your basic Derry guy.
00:34:44.73
Steve Barnes
That's been drinking too much water and he's just, you know, just a, not a nice dude in his own house. And he has a fake face that he has when he's at the butcher shop.
00:34:57.40
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah, the only other thing I have for this group is that the person that attacked Hank was Mr.
00:35:02.55
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm.
00:35:03.04
Lindsey Dunn
mount Malkin, Phil and Susie's dad.
00:35:06.10
Steve Barnes
Yeah, I was going to make mention of that too. That was my my only last point too.
00:35:12.63
Steve Barnes
Because yeah, the the only reason we know that is because he says my kids and he was the only parent that had multiple kids that were attacked.
00:35:17.40
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
00:35:21.72
Steve Barnes
That's how I knew it was him.
00:35:23.93
Lindsey Dunn
It did seem a little... you know There was that scene where um Mr. Bowers brings him onto the bus and they're all just sitting there talking. and you know it's not a nice It's not a nice dialogue.
00:35:39.16
Lindsey Dunn
And then he's getting loaded on the bus and for whatever reason, Chief Bowers decides he needs to shove Hank.
00:35:46.23
Steve Barnes
Yeah, i saw that too. Like, it's not Hank's fault he got attacked just now. What the hell?
00:35:54.74
Lindsey Dunn
i get I mean, I guess you could read it that he was like, hurry up and get on the bus. But it looked like he was just like, okay, this guy is in chains.
00:35:59.45
Steve Barnes
Sure, sure.
00:36:02.34
Lindsey Dunn
Let's just give him one more shove just because I enjoy it. And that hasn't been his MO up to this point is just being malicious. You know, he's just more, yeah.
00:36:12.44
Steve Barnes
No, you're right. I think it's telling. I think i think that is something that I'm glad you brought it up because I know that the, um I mean, we all know that the black spot gets attacked later on by a bunch of like dudes and robes, but we don't know who's under those robes. um and Wouldn't it be crazy if it was a town sheriff, Mr. Clint Bowers? I mean, I mean, it's showing like his anger towards Hank, like right here. um I think you're onto something.
00:36:43.69
Lindsey Dunn
Well, that actually ties into our next kind of block because we're going to be talking about Rose, Tanniel, and General Shaw next.
00:36:51.93
Steve Barnes
Okay.
00:36:52.15
Lindsey Dunn
And the first note I had for this group is about this augury that's mentioned. um that there's They have this name for it that there's...
00:36:58.42
Steve Barnes
Right. Yeah.
00:37:02.81
Lindsey Dunn
that that the... um the entity sheds and that it goes into the water and that as time goes on, they said that the, there was more aggression happening and they have a name for the augury is one last bloody event before the cycle ends, which we know is going to be our black spot.
00:37:16.49
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm.
00:37:24.21
Steve Barnes
Right.
00:37:26.87
Lindsey Dunn
But I didn't know that there was a name for that, the augury. So people are getting more aggressive, including
00:37:33.66
Steve Barnes
okay
00:37:34.71
Lindsey Dunn
Chief Bowers, apparently.
00:37:36.57
Steve Barnes
Yeah. And you weren't the only one. This is this is the first time that that phrase has has reared its head in the King universe. So this is like a first for everybody. um So yeah, I definitely had my pencil and paper out when they were talking about that because that's like new information for us.
00:37:54.04
Steve Barnes
And that woman was talking about, you know, the 27 years of peace once the augury happens. And I think that's what that whole group is looking forward to.
00:38:04.51
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm. let's see. What else? I'll i'll say some stuff about Rose, and then I'll all let you go from there. But Rose obviously, she finds out during this meeting, this town meeting, that they are holding Tanyl.
00:38:28.15
Lindsey Dunn
So she... uses all of the muster that is that you would have as an aunt who's protective of her nephew, and comes in and confronts General Shaw.
00:38:40.47
Lindsey Dunn
And, um you know, is telling him that you will not be able to control this thing. And I thought that was a nice scene between the two of them.
00:38:52.66
Lindsey Dunn
And I thought it was also funny that she says you won't be able to control it And he says, we'll see. We'll see is his response.
00:39:04.75
Lindsey Dunn
We'll just see about that.
00:39:06.58
Steve Barnes
Yeah, we will see, won't we? We'll ah report back later, General Shaw.
00:39:08.88
Lindsey Dunn
Seemed very. And she has this, um she goes into her secret closet and her safe inside of her secret closet and pulls out a weapon that can hurt it.
00:39:24.79
Lindsey Dunn
And yeah.
00:39:24.89
Steve Barnes
Yeah, the shard dagger, that's right.
00:39:26.86
Lindsey Dunn
The shard dagger, the one we saw from this, from the flashback. And so I guess a question I want to ask, and then um maybe you can take it from there is what was their plan here?
00:39:41.50
Lindsey Dunn
Was, i think that's a good question to ask. Yeah. What was the plan that she gave him this shard and what was she hoping would happen?
00:39:54.20
Steve Barnes
I mean, we know that that shard is protection. It's like when that one young lady in the original um Losers Club went out to seek it, they took they took that dagger with them.
00:40:08.06
Steve Barnes
um Unfortunately for that individual, the dagger wasn't enough, but I guess Rose figures, hey, Daniel's getting ready to go to like one of the most dangerous places possible, so I'm going give him this weapon here.
00:40:23.38
Steve Barnes
that we know that the mission that general Shaw's mission is to find these pillars, AKA shards, and I guess relocate them and make a tighter, a tighter cage for it because like it right now has a free reign over the whole town.
00:40:42.62
Steve Barnes
They want to shrink that area up. So Tanyul apparently knows the path to go to these shards.
00:40:54.01
Steve Barnes
through the house on knee bolt street, but we never, we never see any shards. We never see any paths. There's not 13 tunnels leading different places.
00:41:08.95
Steve Barnes
So yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm intrigued. I'm, I'm like scratching my head and not quite sure what to make of this either.
00:41:17.38
Lindsey Dunn
Right. To add to this mystery, um when she goes to see Daniel, they have a dialogue in two different languages.
00:41:29.62
Lindsey Dunn
You know, they start out speaking English and then they they go into the language of the Shokopiwa tribe.
00:41:30.01
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:41:39.26
Lindsey Dunn
or um and they you know He says something to the extent of he tells her that you know he was he was forced to tell them everything.
00:41:52.95
Lindsey Dunn
um But then he mentions, but don't worry, they think. And then she interrupts him and says, i know. So we don't get to hear what he was telling her.
00:42:08.31
Lindsey Dunn
and they were communicating without speaking. So not quite shining level, but they were both tracking with each other. And the I guess the question is what were, what was he going to say?
00:42:23.38
Lindsey Dunn
And i guess where my mind is with it is that he told them most of the stuff or of a partial truth, but didn't tell them the full truth.
00:42:36.25
Lindsey Dunn
Um,
00:42:36.63
Steve Barnes
Right.
00:42:36.92
Lindsey Dunn
You know, he told her that, he told them that if you go under Nybolt Street, you will find the path to the 13 shards. And, but also you noticed in the dream, or not the dream, the memory, the aunt um says, you are now part of the, and then she stops and her eyeball droops.
00:43:03.86
Lindsey Dunn
So I feel like in that moment, and this is just speculation, but I feel that Daniel somehow, as as much as he was forced to release, he stopped before they revealed the final piece of information.
00:43:08.66
Steve Barnes
Yeah. Yes.
00:43:22.01
Steve Barnes
yes
00:43:22.81
Lindsey Dunn
And he managed to shut that down and probably at great cost to himself to do that. um But this plan was doomed from the start.
00:43:34.06
Lindsey Dunn
they're this The sewers aren't a path to the shards. It's just a path to Pennywise and where he lives and dominates.
00:43:45.02
Lindsey Dunn
And Tanyol knew that he was walking into a trap and all of those, but he knew he wouldn't be able to dissuade them. So he Rose gave him the only thing she could, which is was a weapon to protect himself.
00:43:58.49
Steve Barnes
Yeah, I'm on board with all that too, except ah except I think Daniel's telling a half truth. I think the house on Neibolt Street and the sewers do lead to the shards, but there's ah there's an additional step that he didn't tell them about, that there's more to the story that they're that they're unaware of. They thought they would just follow 13 tunnels until they got to the grating That, that bars and then the shards would be right there, like magical objects they could just grab like in a video game. And it's not quite like that. I think Daniel didn't tell them everything, even though when he said those words, like they think, and then Rose shut them up real quick.
00:44:40.97
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:44:42.94
Steve Barnes
That's not where my mind went. That's, that's where it's going now. After our discussion here, that's exactly what I'm thinking now. They think they know the way, but they don't. But at the time I was thinking, they think it sleeps during the daytime, or they think they can move the pillars, or they think they can control it See, I was thinking he was going to finish it with one of those three statements, which are very, you know, very obvious statements, I think, that he could make because they're statements that we all know.
00:45:17.05
Steve Barnes
But yeah, I think there's I think there's more to the tale and whether or not we got it right, we're on the right path.
00:45:17.29
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
00:45:24.89
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm.
00:45:26.87
Steve Barnes
And yeah, it doesn't sleep during the day. Like that's like a mystery. That's a misdirect that Maddie gave the kids.
00:45:32.50
Lindsey Dunn
yeah
00:45:33.92
Steve Barnes
And we know it's not true because the whole grocery store thing happened during the daytime as well.
00:45:43.06
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah, we also find out about General Shaw was kind of lying when he told Rose he didn't remember everything. he says five years ago he was given a drug as part of a military program and he remembered everything about that summer.
00:45:50.43
Steve Barnes
Yes. Yes.
00:45:58.36
Lindsey Dunn
and But then she tells him, i don't think you really do remember everything.
00:45:59.64
Steve Barnes
Yeah. that
00:46:02.84
Lindsey Dunn
Otherwise, you would never have come up with this plan.
00:46:09.30
Steve Barnes
and Maybe both are true. I think it's really neat that he was tied in with the LSD trials that happened like in the late fifties. That's super cool that drugs come into play yet again, because the native Americans use drugs to like see their visions.
00:46:19.74
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. Yeah.
00:46:24.63
Steve Barnes
And he took LSD and remember Derry. And the kids are taking value on this episode. um it makes me wonder why he didn't think about drugging his team with slight doses of LSD or something like that before they went into the sewers.
00:46:43.51
Steve Barnes
Seriously. Uh-huh.
00:46:44.40
Lindsey Dunn
It kind of makes you think the kids had the good ah you know the better plan.
00:46:48.34
Steve Barnes
Yeah, that's right.
00:46:49.88
Lindsey Dunn
Maybe not taking three of those. I don't know how, you know, maybe if they had taken one or one and a half.
00:46:55.64
Steve Barnes
Right. her
00:46:59.38
Lindsey Dunn
The idea was supposed to be to stay calm, not um not be emotionally numb. Yeah.
00:47:07.29
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
00:47:10.68
Lindsey Dunn
But yeah, it was a nice scene between that. I general Shaw is, he is not my friend right now. He's really, you know, he comes in the room and he, you know, Dick Halloran says we got him and he just looks so satisfied that he's, that he's used Dick Halloran this way to break into Daniel's mind.
00:47:17.50
Steve Barnes
Oh no.
00:47:32.33
Lindsey Dunn
And he isn't apologetic at all about Rose, but boy, he does. He definitely, when she comes in the door, he stands straight up and straightens his tie and he's on his best behavior and he'll be let go when we're done with our operation, I promise.
00:47:47.96
Lindsey Dunn
You know, it was just, I'm not liking him right now.
00:47:53.53
Steve Barnes
especially the way that he ends up, like as we go through this episode, he was not there and the, in the sewers because when, um, when Daniel takes his opportunity to start running and he runs off and he drops the shard, um, from his bag, which Lily finds later, um, that other dude that i think his name is puller,
00:48:00.95
Lindsey Dunn
Right.
00:48:16.90
Lindsey Dunn
spoiler
00:48:18.08
Steve Barnes
Fuller. Yeah. I thought that was Shaw at first, like just starts opening, and firing and shooting at Daniel like 10 times. That, that, that was one of my WTF moments right there. I was like, why are you shooting after this kid? He's supposed to be your guide. And that's not the way you make them stop. And I'm, I don't know that that really threw me through a loop, but it was not Shaw.
00:48:41.27
Steve Barnes
like So that was not Shaw. Shaw was not part of the mission. However, after the whole mission wrapped up, It was a shit mission. Okay. Let's just say this. They, they lost Halloran.
00:48:50.38
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm.
00:48:52.78
Steve Barnes
They lost Tanyal. They lost two unnamed random soldiers. Russo is dead. The ancient weapon is lost. And if you talk to Hanlon, there was a bunch of kids down there too. This mission was awful. And to wrap it all up, what does he say about this mission and about Rose and them? He says that they, being the native Americans, They'll answer for what they let us into.
00:49:18.36
Steve Barnes
So he blames them for this whole fiasco, which is completely out of line. He's, he is off his rocker and I have another wild suspicion about him.
00:49:26.17
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
00:49:28.57
Steve Barnes
You ready for this one?
00:49:29.82
Lindsey Dunn
Okay.
00:49:31.26
Steve Barnes
You remember when he was sitting in his office this episode and he was watching, um, the protests and And he had this look on his face. He was watching like the, a civil rights march. And they were talking about like, you know, how, know, there's bloodshed in the streets.
00:49:48.47
Steve Barnes
And he was watching this scene, like with like a look on his face, like he was loving it. And I was like, is he feeding off of the fear of this crowd on this television? Is he really like being, perhaps he's being led by it in a way.
00:50:05.98
Steve Barnes
And maybe there's a glimpse of it inside him I mean, it's off the charts crazy just based on one small scene, but like that scene was there in the show to be noticed.
00:50:17.59
Steve Barnes
So I thought it was a very suspicious scene for Shaw.
00:50:19.70
Lindsey Dunn
Was that this episode or?
00:50:21.14
Steve Barnes
Yes. It was right before Rose walked in.
00:50:22.46
Lindsey Dunn
Okay.
00:50:25.21
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. I don't know. i don't know if I saw that, I guess in my back of my mind, I have hope for this guy, i guess. I think if he just, listen I think if he just listens to his woman, he'll be fine.
00:50:33.57
Steve Barnes
Well, sure.
00:50:37.59
Lindsey Dunn
But yeah, I do kind of wonder if, you know, I'm hoping Daniel made it out and what he means by that.
00:50:38.78
Steve Barnes
yeah
00:50:45.14
Steve Barnes
Oh yeah.
00:50:45.92
Lindsey Dunn
And if he's going to go get revenge or, you know, if he's blaming them for how it went, then, um you know, he's not going to like the fact that they set up this misdirection.
00:50:50.62
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
00:51:01.43
Steve Barnes
Right.
00:51:02.04
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
00:51:02.84
Steve Barnes
Yeah. Daniel de Daniel definitely got out of there. We didn't see him get out of there, but I mean,
00:51:07.13
Lindsey Dunn
I was worried when he lost his weapon.
00:51:09.21
Steve Barnes
Yeah. But I mean, we never saw him again and then he knows his ways around the tunnel. So I'm like 99% sure he's fine. And besides he's like credited in IMDB and being in all eight episodes.
00:51:19.86
Lindsey Dunn
Okay.
00:51:24.14
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
00:51:25.54
Lindsey Dunn
Oh my gosh, we're back to IMDb giving us our guidance. but ah We're doomed. Okay. Um...
00:51:35.93
Lindsey Dunn
Anything else about this crew?
00:51:39.29
Steve Barnes
Let me scroll through my notes one last time. Suspicious Shaw, shit mission, they'll answer what they did for. i think we've i think we've covered it i'll covered it all.
00:51:50.33
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. ah I was like, okay, well, it was anything else said in this interesting, this meeting? They mentioned their new keeper. but they were They were training their new keeper.
00:51:58.52
Steve Barnes
Oh, yeah.
00:52:00.71
Lindsey Dunn
So I'm guessing that Rose is the current keeper.
00:52:05.24
Steve Barnes
Absolutely.
00:52:05.50
Lindsey Dunn
And they're training someone to follow in her footsteps. And it's just...
00:52:09.98
Steve Barnes
Yeah. Who? Not Dan, not Daniel. He wasn't there.
00:52:13.02
Lindsey Dunn
It was the young lady that they were... That answered.
00:52:16.41
Steve Barnes
Okay.
00:52:16.47
Lindsey Dunn
they I don't remember her what her name was.
00:52:17.18
Steve Barnes
Okay.
00:52:18.27
Lindsey Dunn
But it does seem like the keeper is a female. um Maybe that's always a a storyteller. Yeah.
00:52:26.23
Steve Barnes
I mean, all four that we know of have, you know, have been female, so safe to assume.
00:52:32.09
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. um So yeah, they talk about the shedding, that there's big event of violence.
00:52:39.67
Steve Barnes
Oh yeah. And I give myself some credit because we were talking early on this podcast series about, um because you know, my work in water and wastewater, and I was saying like how some big evil meteorite that hits the ground will definitely have ramifications for future generations and that ground could be tainted. And that sounds like if that's exactly what these, um this council is saying. So they were like, Steve Barnes, congratulations.
00:53:05.78
Steve Barnes
And I say, thank you.
00:53:08.34
Lindsey Dunn
I don't like to think about people shedding their skin into the water. That's kind of gross anyway.
00:53:14.36
Steve Barnes
I mean, that we're talking about blood and brains too. I mean, I'll take the shedding skin over the blood and the brains any day. right Okay.
00:53:23.86
Lindsey Dunn
All right, let's move on to Halloran, Grandma and Grandpa. Okay.
00:53:30.09
Steve Barnes
Oh yeah. This is, we're back to that moment now, or I wanted to talk earlier about, about them. So yeah, Dick has like this underwater vision of his grandma and grandpa back in, back in their old bathroom. And grandpa is trying to trick young Dick Halloran and to open up his box of fears.
00:53:50.84
Steve Barnes
Um, and later on this episode, when we see a dead Polly Russo walking around, we know that indeed that box has been opened for sure. um so yeah, Dick Halloran's box of fears has been forced open by and And this is what I wanted to say earlier about, you were saying that his grandma looked kind of creepy too.
00:54:13.78
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm.
00:54:13.88
Steve Barnes
i don't necessarily disagree with you, except for that she and Dick were sharing like a telepathic conversation.
00:54:21.60
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm.
00:54:22.55
Steve Barnes
And all of her words were to help Dick and to guide Dick on the side of good. And then her grant, the grandfather of course is, you know, sadistic and evil.
00:54:33.98
Steve Barnes
And he even shoots the woman to like, know, make Dick listen. He doesn't shoot Dick. He shoots the grandmother knowing that Dick will respond to that.
00:54:41.49
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm.
00:54:44.54
Lindsey Dunn
Right.
00:54:45.34
Steve Barnes
I got strong, very strong, mature in the turtle and it vibes from the grandmother and the grandfather because it has found Dick Halloran and recognizes that Dick Halloran has very special gifts similar to it.
00:55:04.63
Steve Barnes
So it wants to infiltrate it. But then there's another figure there that's trying to kind of inadvertently and indirectly stop it from happening, not strong arming their way to stop it from happening, but just indirectly guiding um the other person into another direction, which falls right into the God and Satan you know allegory you made earlier.
00:55:31.38
Lindsey Dunn
Well, almost, I guess realized grandma was for him was his force of good growing up.
00:55:39.42
Steve Barnes
Yes, that's right.
00:55:40.66
Lindsey Dunn
But I think what I was kind of saying is in these visions, when he's having these visions now, is the grandma still a tool of good or is it just another tool of Pennywise to I mean, I'd like to think, and and we've said this, I've said this before, I'd like to think that Maturin is also sending, you know, agents of good and help help and encouragement along the way.
00:55:56.67
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm.
00:56:08.38
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
00:56:11.00
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
00:56:11.29
Lindsey Dunn
But it's just that when grandma's approaching Dick Halloran in the woods and saying, mind me, son, keep the lid on tight.
00:56:16.09
Steve Barnes
Right. Yes.
00:56:19.50
Lindsey Dunn
It's not exactly, it's not exactly what you'd want to hear. Maybe you'd want to hear something like, I'm always with you or I'll be next to you. I'm always with you.
00:56:30.06
Lindsey Dunn
You know, something like that instead of instead of being in a tunnel and going dick, you know, it's like, that was, that was what grandma's approach was to like, you know, giving him.
00:56:38.36
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
00:56:43.38
Steve Barnes
You're not wrong. I think, I think we've seen two images of the grandmother when he saw the grandmother in that first image, when he was in the plane, that was clearly an image that it took over and tried to get Dick to jump out of the plane.
00:56:57.02
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
00:56:58.71
Steve Barnes
So that was a manifestation of it. Then when we saw the woods, I would think that that was also a manifestation of it, except for the advice that she gave him, which is keep the lid on tight.
00:57:11.70
Steve Barnes
Like don't give up that box. So I think that that was a manifestation of Maturin. And then when we see this last one here, And it's, you know, definitely maternity and it like side by side, almost like a, what do you call it? That, that one person that they, that God and the devil made a bet who, that, that one person would um deny God.
00:57:39.77
Steve Barnes
what was the Canaan? It was, it was a Canaan. I don't know.
00:57:42.46
Lindsey Dunn
No, it's, um I'm sorry.
00:57:42.49
Steve Barnes
I'm talking on my butt now.
00:57:44.46
Lindsey Dunn
It's, it's, um I know, I know what you're saying now, but it's, the really famous book about suffering.
00:57:51.90
Steve Barnes
Yes.
00:57:52.92
Lindsey Dunn
This is hair horrible.
00:57:53.11
Steve Barnes
And, but that's, that's kind of like what I'm seeing is like, like Dick Halloran is that biblical figure. And then like the mother represents God and the grandfather represents Satan.
00:58:08.06
Steve Barnes
Job, Job is it was.
00:58:09.21
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah, that's right, Job. Well, yeah, I mean, i would I would agree with that, but I i guess that in this in this vision though, if grandma's there supporting him, then you would think he would actually have the tools to fight it.
00:58:25.94
Lindsey Dunn
But I don't think he did because he wasn't wanting to open the box, but grandpa was able to make him anyway. Um, by just, it was it was almost like Dick had no say in the matter whatsoever.
00:58:39.16
Lindsey Dunn
And I don't think it's from lack of, um, from lack of strength. So yeah, I don't know.
00:58:44.71
Steve Barnes
Oh,
00:58:45.14
Lindsey Dunn
It was, it was, a painful image because he's remembering his past and being chained to the bathtub.
00:58:51.10
Steve Barnes
oh yeah. Yeah.
00:58:52.22
Lindsey Dunn
I mean, it's so, so I don't, I don't know. I'm not, I'm not not sure I'm exactly agreeing with what you're saying, but it's, it's a good, it's a good thought that hopefully grandmother is going to be able to help him in some way.
00:59:08.02
Lindsey Dunn
um
00:59:08.06
Steve Barnes
yeah
00:59:09.11
Lindsey Dunn
be
00:59:09.71
Steve Barnes
That's just what I got out of it. But I also see that now this will lead, this is going to change Dick Halloran now because now he can see ghosts.
00:59:18.39
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
00:59:21.14
Steve Barnes
Now he can communicate with ghosts.
00:59:21.34
Lindsey Dunn
yeah
00:59:23.10
Steve Barnes
Will this be helpful in the future? It seems like it could potentially be a power.
00:59:26.30
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
00:59:29.62
Steve Barnes
I because Pennywise and Dick basic basically have very similar powers and abilities. It's just at a different scale a different ability level, but very similar.
00:59:39.06
Lindsey Dunn
yeah Yeah. Well, that gets at another question I want to ask, which is actually more about the grandpa than, than, than it.
00:59:46.36
Steve Barnes
Okay.
00:59:46.49
Lindsey Dunn
But when Grandpa says that gift, this gift isn't meant to be put in a box.
00:59:52.49
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm.
00:59:52.82
Lindsey Dunn
And so how does, whether it is a memory of his real Grandpa or if this is it entering into this moment, what so how does Grandpa think he can use um Dick's gift of seeing dead people?
01:00:16.63
Steve Barnes
I don't know. um Maybe ah you could you go on one side and and it'll make Dick appear crazy and take him off the playing board, put him in Juniper Hill or put him in jail.
01:00:29.82
Steve Barnes
Or maybe um it you know, it has a very, very high opinion of itself. So maybe it thinks that if he, if he can, you know,
01:00:41.05
Steve Barnes
get Dick back to use this ability, maybe he can team up with Dick and maybe Dick would be a perfect form that it could take to like do better killings in the future, perhaps.
01:00:53.72
Lindsey Dunn
Or maybe he just wanted to torment him by opening the box he wanted to keep closed with the the things that scared him. So it could be something as easy, as basic as that, but...
01:01:03.22
Steve Barnes
Yeah. It is fascinated by Dick Halloran, fascinated by it, because he's never met anybody like Dick Halloran before.
01:01:05.66
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
01:01:11.48
Steve Barnes
So, you know, there's a fascination there. There's a mutual respect there.
01:01:16.31
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm. Man, he needs to meet Danny then. Eventually...
01:01:21.98
Steve Barnes
Oh yeah. What about, what about this box, this shiny gold box? Is this the same box from Pulp Fiction?
01:01:31.36
Lindsey Dunn
I don't think so, but it might be the same box from Seven. What's in the box?
01:01:36.22
Steve Barnes
Oh, no. It's got Gwyneth Paltrow's head in it. I want Marsalis's soul. That's what I want in the box.
01:01:44.23
Lindsey Dunn
There's so many boxes out there. So many boxes. Yeah.
01:01:48.09
Steve Barnes
And yet another one now thinks, yeah.
01:01:49.47
Lindsey Dunn
Pandora's box, too. Yeah.
01:01:53.33
Lindsey Dunn
Okay, let's move into our kid team. this a big This is a big team here. We got Ronnie, Will, Rich, Marge, Lily, and Maddie.
01:02:05.24
Steve Barnes
Yeah, dude. Maddie's back in the crew again. Reunion time. so yeah, we're calling this the 1962 losers club. They're gaining a new member with Marge and they think they're reunited with an old member, Maddie.
01:02:21.69
Steve Barnes
Um, they're led down to the sewers where Maddie eventually reveals himself to be Pennywise the clown, And we know that every time we see Maddie here, he's actually Pennywise it in disguise.
01:02:35.86
Steve Barnes
So how long do you think he had to sit there and listen to rich talk about paper airplanes? You think it enjoyed that? but
01:02:47.39
Lindsey Dunn
He didn't really say anything back about that, did he? he was just kind of sitting there.
01:02:51.67
Steve Barnes
He's like, this pure torture. I thought I could torture kids. This is awful. Yeah.
01:02:57.98
Lindsey Dunn
maybe he'll Maybe he'll get some tips from Rich
01:03:04.14
Lindsey Dunn
about to torture people in the future.
01:03:06.94
Steve Barnes
But this, yeah, this is ah we've already discussed this scene at right the tip top, but this was, I mean, lovely that, that Maddie is, is here in their, in their standpipe.
01:03:07.26
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
01:03:17.81
Steve Barnes
It's almost like we have a seven gang losers club. Almost. We got six kids. Well, five kids really, because Maddie doesn't count, but you know, this big, huge gang of kids on bikes showing up to the sewer brings back vibes. get you get chills looking at it.
01:03:33.40
Steve Barnes
Um,
01:03:36.15
Steve Barnes
Yeah, this whole thing, like everybody was high-fiving about Phil being alive because the showrunners very slyly, you know, made Phil look alive on the cereal boxes. They never showed Phil really being dead. So we definitely believe this. We as the audience and we, the kids in the show, um believe this. And that that that's the big impetus. It's not just to rescue Hank anymore. Now we got a live kid we can rescue.
01:04:05.21
Steve Barnes
So, you know, that's the whole, and Lily, once again, comes with a plan, comes with the tools in hand. i think we need to let somebody else have the good idea next season or next episode, right? Let's let Lily sit a back seat.
01:04:19.90
Lindsey Dunn
Well, Steve, not only did she come with a plan, but she came with a hallmark slogan.
01:04:23.19
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
01:04:27.26
Steve Barnes
What was that?
01:04:29.62
Lindsey Dunn
Are you an anchor or a lifeboat?
01:04:32.02
Steve Barnes
ah I kind of like this. i like this a lot, Lindsey.
01:04:35.02
Lindsey Dunn
I liked it, but I feel like she's she's taking a tip from her friend Ingrid, who's always giving her, you know, Forrest Gump types of slogans, like,
01:04:36.95
Steve Barnes
ah
01:04:41.82
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
01:04:45.39
Lindsey Dunn
It's about the friends you made along the way. you know So it just it just kind of it kind of struck me as pretty cheesy. And you know they're they're they've been building up this concept of Lily being the leader and the one that has the plans.
01:05:03.70
Lindsey Dunn
But I wonder, yeah, I wonder if they're going to be kind of at this point, ah let's have somebody else try leading for for a change because Lily's had these ideas and they haven't really panned out so well so far.
01:05:14.52
Steve Barnes
everything
01:05:20.31
Steve Barnes
Hey, Will, can you give us an idea maybe this week, please? let's
01:05:25.53
Lindsey Dunn
He will research it thoroughly.
01:05:27.93
Steve Barnes
yes And it won't involve drugs. I can tell you that. Even though I had a lot of fun with that drug scene, that was a lot of fun. But the anchors in life, but I'm surprised to hear you say that because i really, i I really liked that whole concept.
01:05:35.70
Lindsey Dunn
yes
01:05:42.77
Steve Barnes
I really like dug into it. i mean, maybe I'm a more corny person than I give myself credit for, but I mean,
01:05:50.42
Lindsey Dunn
If you're going to give a St. Crispin speech, day speech, you need to come up with something different than that.
01:05:56.57
Steve Barnes
I guess you're right.
01:05:56.60
Lindsey Dunn
Something better.
01:05:57.37
Steve Barnes
It's, it's a new concept to me. And it's, it's a concept that honestly I've, I've been thinking a lot about not in these terms, the, this phrasing in these terms are new to me, the anchors and lifeboats thing, but I had been like kind of wrestling, like with, you know, remembering past loved ones.
01:06:17.59
Steve Barnes
Um, remembering bad images from them and remembering good memories from them and like the battle to have those um different thoughts about people. And, you know, thinking about friends that you've had through your lifetime and you think about this phrase anchors are lifeboats. And I can definitely think of some anchors in my life and I can definitely think of some lifeboats in my life.
01:06:40.92
Steve Barnes
So, you know, corny old Steve over here really liked it.
01:06:41.53
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. Okay. Well, okay. Counterpoint Steve, I am going to be devil's advocate advocate there.
01:06:46.52
Steve Barnes
Yes. Please.
01:06:49.55
Lindsey Dunn
I don't think these are the two phrases you want to put it against each other because anchors are not bad things. You need an anchor.
01:06:55.99
Steve Barnes
Right.
01:06:56.43
Lindsey Dunn
These anchors are positive things. So you need to, you just need a different, um, you know, an app lifeboat or, a rock tied to a rock tied to your, you know, your ankle.
01:07:11.09
Lindsey Dunn
It's, you know, you talk about being weighed down with a bag, bag of rocks or something like that. Anchors are good things. We need anchors on our boats to keep us safe and um people.
01:07:21.91
Steve Barnes
If we want to get anywhere though, if we want to move around, the anchors aren't really that helpful.
01:07:22.62
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
01:07:28.12
Lindsey Dunn
Oh boy. Okay. Well, I just thought it was a little a little heavy-handed of an analogy to be using here.
01:07:35.76
Steve Barnes
Sure.
01:07:37.05
Lindsey Dunn
And I know she needed to move she needed to move the kids, but it wasn't it wasn't a good move. It wasn't, um you know, and the one the one that we can see now that set up this whole thing was Maddie because he's the one that says that Phil's still down there.
01:07:50.71
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm.
01:07:54.38
Lindsey Dunn
So that's, um now we have to set up this rescue mission.
01:07:55.00
Steve Barnes
who
01:07:59.48
Lindsey Dunn
So it was actually, pretty manufactured by him, this idea in the first place.
01:08:05.78
Steve Barnes
It was, and you know, the, uh, the volume thing, like you said, three volume way too much. Like her mom pops them like M and M's. Sure. Your mom is a full grown adult.
01:08:18.62
Steve Barnes
who probably weighs like, you know, 160 pounds and you're like Lily, you're 12, you weigh 80 pounds. So like you, you don't want to do this Lily, but they don't know. and it makes for a very fun scene. i really enjoy it a lot. I enjoy the fact that they got really high, but there's no payoff with it whatsoever.
01:08:40.73
Steve Barnes
Like it, it never comes back around as helpful whatsoever.
01:08:45.21
Lindsey Dunn
Right. Well, the payoff is you get to see you get to see Rich and Marge holding hands in the sewers and having Lily turn around and say,
01:08:56.70
Lindsey Dunn
Are you two holding hands? And Marge says no. And Rich goes yes.
01:09:05.30
Steve Barnes
I mean, if that's the point, then it was totally worth it.
01:09:06.62
Lindsey Dunn
That is the payoff.
01:09:07.30
Steve Barnes
It was worth it.
01:09:07.70
Lindsey Dunn
That is the payoff.
01:09:08.14
Steve Barnes
It was worth it.
01:09:08.86
Lindsey Dunn
i
01:09:09.24
Steve Barnes
Okay.
01:09:09.82
Lindsey Dunn
i Rich continues to be um the the comic relief that I need. he's i love when he's when he says everybody says that.
01:09:20.63
Lindsey Dunn
My school, the post office, my barber.
01:09:23.01
Steve Barnes
My barber.
01:09:24.70
Lindsey Dunn
And then when he when when he hears when he hears Maddie making a noise before he reveals himself, you know, Will picks up a baseball bat, Rich picks up a bowling pin, and says, this is a private club!
01:09:42.65
Lindsey Dunn
and it's just hilarious.
01:09:44.34
Steve Barnes
He's a great guy. i love this all. And yeah, them holding hands, love it.
01:09:46.63
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
01:09:49.66
Steve Barnes
The way they're slurring their speech, 100%. I'm really on board with this whole thing.
01:09:55.14
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
01:09:55.98
Steve Barnes
And it did give us like insight to Maddie. We noticed that he wasn't stoned. So, you know, that, that was our big clue to us. um The gang didn't have this glowing dagger. We didn't mention the dagger that Tanyal had. He dropped it in the water.
01:10:11.74
Steve Barnes
and Lily retrieves it unknowingly later on. But this thing glows just like that sword in a Lord of the Rings whenever the orcs come near. Like, um, his sword glows blue, so this this shard kind of does the same thing. So I'm picking up Lord of the Rings vibes.
01:10:30.30
Steve Barnes
Back at the sewers again, like when the military went into the sewers, you mentioned the well as one of your Easter eggs, and I thought it reminded me of, um...
01:10:41.18
Steve Barnes
ah
01:10:43.96
Steve Barnes
Jodie Foster film, Silence of the Lambs. That's where my mind went there.
01:10:46.42
Lindsey Dunn
Oh, yeah.
01:10:47.72
Steve Barnes
And then when they got down there and started moving around, I was like, oh, it's a barbarian now. This is like this Neibolt house is barbarian meets Silence of the Lambs.
01:10:57.62
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. Yeah.
01:10:57.91
Steve Barnes
But yeah, down there holding hands. um And eventually we we got to talk about how Maddie lures them down there. And they find the dead bodies and they're horrified and they're yelling. And Maddie starts doing a pole dance. He starts spinning around on the pole, turns into our man. Pennywise, Lindsey, Pennywise finally made his appearance this episode. Did you love it?
01:11:29.67
Lindsey Dunn
I liked the part where he was dancing around the pole and singing. but then But then to me, the way that it was filmed when he says, he goes, down with the clown!
01:11:41.06
Lindsey Dunn
And then there's like five seconds of silence. And I thought there would be a lot more reactions happening.
01:11:44.57
Steve Barnes
Right. Right.
01:11:48.49
Lindsey Dunn
So I it felt like it that was a little anticlimactic.
01:11:49.11
Steve Barnes
Yes.
01:11:53.18
Lindsey Dunn
And then Marge just starts sort of screaming out of thin air. I know. I, I, it was a good, i liked the reveal. liked part of it. I liked the reveal of Maddie becoming Pennywise, but then it wasn't really scary. It was more, it was more, i don't know, entertaining. There he is, Maddie turning into Bill Skarsgård.
01:12:19.80
Lindsey Dunn
Impressive special effects there.
01:12:20.10
Steve Barnes
I'm glad to get.
01:12:21.92
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
01:12:22.84
Steve Barnes
Yeah. the The special, the Maddie turning into Pennywise, I'm going to say it didn't quite work for me. Like I saw it happening and I accepted it, but it it didn't knock me off my feet. um And like you said, there was that, that pause there, that three second pause where they expect yeah it's like they left the left room for the audience to cheer or to clap or something or go, Oh, I think that's what the gist was is they were giving people a chance to yell and do their reaction videos or whatnot.
01:12:47.61
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
01:12:54.87
Steve Barnes
But when he said like his little duck and cover phrase, i really appreciated that a lot. Um,
01:13:00.02
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah, that was funny.
01:13:01.56
Steve Barnes
It was not only funny, but it made me remember like in the opening segment of this whole, okay, he says duck and cover kids, which is like, you know, this slogan from the turtle and it's all tied in with nuclear war and the opening credits, the kids are watching the film with a nuclear blast happening in the background.
01:13:20.59
Steve Barnes
And it's Pennywise that is operating the film. You see like his clown hand,
01:13:26.08
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm.
01:13:26.87
Steve Barnes
So I think that's really neat. I think that's kind of tied that made me think about that intro how it's actually Pennywise at the helm there warning the kids they got to start ducking and cover because here he comes with his nuclear assault.
01:13:42.07
Steve Barnes
Now, once he started talking and leering about and saying stuff and chasing them, I was very much on board. i was very glad Pennywise was back in the show.
01:13:52.34
Steve Barnes
But the initial reveal, just like you said, it it underwhelmed me as well.
01:13:58.52
Lindsey Dunn
I thought it was more scary. There was a moment when when when the two soldiers that get separated from the group and they're down in the sewers and the guy turns into the I want you.
01:14:06.96
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
01:14:12.60
Lindsey Dunn
and don't know what they call that guy, but yeah, Uncle Sam.
01:14:12.63
Steve Barnes
Yeah. Uncle Sam.
01:14:15.70
Lindsey Dunn
Okay, so before Uncle Sam comes out, he's just in the dark and then his finger slowly comes out and there's kind of that to me is so well done when they do stuff like that. It was the same feeling I got when Dick has his vision when he's on the plane and Pennywise is like, who are you? And he's just in the dark and you can't see him.
01:14:41.75
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
01:14:42.15
Lindsey Dunn
That's so much scarier than, than when it's like, you know, giant.
01:14:44.09
Steve Barnes
Yep, it is. In your face screaming.
01:14:47.77
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
01:14:48.39
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
01:14:48.53
Lindsey Dunn
In your, or the, or the jerky, did-a- did-d did- did- to do when they come, when it comes really close to you, it It, dumb yeah.
01:14:54.49
Steve Barnes
Not as, yeah.
01:14:55.82
Lindsey Dunn
it
01:14:56.26
Steve Barnes
I'm with you.
01:14:57.62
Lindsey Dunn
So, yeah. it um I know everybody is just excited that Pennywise is back, but yeah, I think I just like, I find his other forms scarier right now than I do Pennywise.
01:15:10.94
Lindsey Dunn
To me, Pennywise is just entertaining, but yeah.
01:15:15.10
Steve Barnes
He's recognizable, you know, he's iconic people, people been waiting for him and now he's here.
01:15:16.25
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
01:15:20.73
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. um
01:15:22.30
Steve Barnes
um
01:15:22.97
Lindsey Dunn
Oh, that was the the I did want to talk a little bit about Marge and Lily and their reunion. So they we kind of catch up with them pretty early in this episode.
01:15:36.31
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
01:15:36.95
Lindsey Dunn
And you know Marge is recovering in the room and Lily's there. And it kind of bothered me that when she comes Lily comes in, her lead kind of thing is that what did you tell them about me? You know, she seemed more interested in what did you tell the authorities then?
01:16:03.61
Lindsey Dunn
hey are you okay? I'm glad you're okay. um I mean, they, they've been on the fritz, they've been on the fritz, but it kind of bothered me that um I felt like her main motivation of coming into the room wasn't to check on her friend.
01:16:09.58
Steve Barnes
That's valid.
01:16:19.21
Lindsey Dunn
It was more, you know, what's going to happen next? what are you going to tell everybody? um Which is understandable, but still, i felt like it was a little cold.
01:16:29.85
Lindsey Dunn
um But she does make up for that later by saying, if he comes back again, you won't be alone. um And then Marge, i I thought her speeches and her lines was very sincere this time. She really seems to be trying to make up for lost time.
01:16:50.93
Lindsey Dunn
She's quick to apologize for not believing her friend. And, um and yeah, she wants to help now. And the friend group seems a little slow to accept her, except for Rich, who is kind of, hi, the very beginning.
01:17:07.19
Steve Barnes
Oh, yeah, that's right. He's into it. I forgot he's into this. Yeah.
01:17:12.06
Lindsey Dunn
I did wonder how, i guess the only, yeah, the only question I kind of wondered is, when we when they show a picture of her eyelid, her eyelid has all these scratches and wounds on it.
01:17:25.69
Lindsey Dunn
And I was kind of like, that doesn't make sense because it was her eyeballs that she cut. So, I mean, I guess they had to do something.
01:17:34.81
Steve Barnes
I guess like that her cutting off those, those protruding eyeballs and the blood was just imaginary. And I guess the only thing that was real was like her stabbing herself in the eye when she actually did it herself.
01:17:48.15
Steve Barnes
um That's the gist that I got, but yeah, it didn't look like as bad as I thought it would look.
01:17:48.89
Lindsey Dunn
The good point, good point. Okay.
01:17:53.78
Steve Barnes
And I didn't pick up that vibe. I mean, what you said about Lily there is obviously valid, but I i didn't catch that vibe at all. And I watched it twice and both times I i found it sincere.
01:18:08.82
Steve Barnes
um um'm I'm just.
01:18:10.91
Lindsey Dunn
Lily's right. ah real Lily was right to be a little standoffish maybe because Marge, you know, was almost going to but play a mean prank on her. So maybe it was that kind of, can I trust you?
01:18:21.62
Steve Barnes
Mm hmm.
01:18:23.57
Lindsey Dunn
Can I not? So I just, I thought it was, I thought at the same time, i wish she would have said, are you okay?
01:18:24.66
Steve Barnes
Yeah, that's what I saw.
01:18:30.53
Lindsey Dunn
First, at least before she said anything else, like I shouldn't be here because everybody thinks I did it.
01:18:31.22
Steve Barnes
Sure.
01:18:37.58
Steve Barnes
That's what you would have said first. You would have brought flowers and said, how you doing? Let's talk about you first, Marge.
01:18:45.50
Lindsey Dunn
would have said, how are you? Are you okay? I was worried about you. And then I might say, so what are you going to tell them as an afterthought?
01:18:52.95
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
01:18:56.50
Lindsey Dunn
At least that's what I'd like to think about myself. Who knows? i would haven't been in this situation yet.
01:18:59.82
Steve Barnes
Sure. I think you would have done the right thing. You're a kind person, Lindsey.
01:19:04.50
Lindsey Dunn
Thank you.
01:19:06.36
Steve Barnes
um I thought it was really fun here. Like how, remember we said last time that, you know, everybody's going to end up in the tunnels at the same time. What are you doing here? Oh, what are you doing here?
01:19:16.76
Steve Barnes
And that's actually what happened.
01:19:18.53
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm.
01:19:18.76
Steve Barnes
It's like, it seems almost coordinated. Like Pennywise lured these kids into the tunnel and And then possibly if Pennywise is working underhandedly with Shaw and maybe indirectly with Daniel and Dick, maybe this was all a coordinated attack because that's what Shaw told them initially was shoot anything that doesn't belong down there. And obviously the kids are like that.
01:19:45.82
Steve Barnes
And the first vision that they sent Leroy was one of Charlotte, which we're going to talk about that next year. But yeah, you know So that right there that establishes your loved ones could be down here, your loved ones being Will. So you know as soon as Polly starts saying, yeah, okay, shoot my gym teacher, got it. I was like, oh no, they're going to shoot Will.
01:20:08.44
Steve Barnes
That was my very next thought. And of course that almost did happen next.
01:20:15.64
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. I mean, i i the same thing happened to me as soon as he said, we're going to shoot anything. and i was like, the kids are down there. oh no no, no, no, no.
01:20:26.42
Steve Barnes
Not them, not them.
01:20:26.54
Lindsey Dunn
And then and then that's what happened. But yeah. And then you had to drag poor Polly into the whole thing. So yeah. Let's go to our our last set here, being Charlotte.
01:20:38.97
Steve Barnes
Well, not quite yet. Not quite yet. We still got to wrap up with Lily here because Lily...
01:20:43.00
Lindsey Dunn
so Okay, I'm sorry. i thought we were done with these kids.
01:20:45.86
Steve Barnes
We ain't done with these damn kids yet. Lily, Lily Dunn got herself lost in the sewer.
01:20:47.96
Lindsey Dunn
Okay.
01:20:51.57
Steve Barnes
She's all looking back and forth. Doesn't know where she's at. Pennywise is running after her and Pennywise backs her up into a corner, but ah luckily enough, like the luck of the turtle, you might say, um that dagger ends up like right there between her and Pennywise.
01:21:08.12
Steve Barnes
Pennywise sees the dagger and does a, uh-oh yeah and just kind of backs off. Um, I would have thought he could have done a little more than that. Maybe he could have like done a lot of taunting before he ran off or maybe said some cool catchphrases, but he didn't
01:21:23.35
Lindsey Dunn
or try to get Or try to get her to drop it or give it, you know.
01:21:26.53
Steve Barnes
write or throw it away somewhere. Hey, throw it over there.
01:21:28.69
Lindsey Dunn
Oh, that's probably poisoned.
01:21:31.91
Steve Barnes
Cause she wasn't holding it. It was just in the water and she wasn't even aware of it.
01:21:34.20
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. after Yeah, when I first saw something glowing, I didn't even know what it was. i thought um maybe she'd reach one of the boundaries or maybe she had, um maybe he's it was her turtle bracelet.
01:21:45.24
Steve Barnes
okay
01:21:51.13
Lindsey Dunn
You know, i was I was trying to figure out
01:21:51.61
Steve Barnes
She did have the turtle bracelet. Like when he backed up in a corner, she did have the turtle was facing Pennywise. So I think some people might've thought that that's why Pennywise, you know, rich you know, recoiled.
01:22:04.63
Steve Barnes
But the, my first thought when I saw it glowing, I was like, I recognized it as the dagger on first glance, but I was like, how did it get here? This is not where Tanyol dropped it.
01:22:16.73
Steve Barnes
There's no way it would be here.
01:22:16.78
Lindsey Dunn
Right.
01:22:18.69
Steve Barnes
So I can think only think that, The turtle created a strong sewer poopy like current that pushed it over that way.
01:22:29.34
Steve Barnes
ah
01:22:30.21
Lindsey Dunn
The current, the poop current went this way.
01:22:32.38
Steve Barnes
oh Yep. I mean, I don't know how else it got there, but it was there to save the day.
01:22:40.85
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah, so ah now Lily has the dagger.
01:22:47.51
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
01:22:47.51
Lindsey Dunn
What do you
01:22:47.87
Steve Barnes
Okay. Yeah. Is she the keeper? Like all of a sudden, like, I hope it goes back to the correct hands because right now it's not in the right hands at all.
01:22:51.17
Lindsey Dunn
think? Yeah, i I have a feeling they're gonna... It's not gonna go back to their right hands
01:23:05.11
Steve Barnes
Oh, yeah
01:23:07.08
Lindsey Dunn
hands. That would be too ne neat of a story that if they're like... does this belong to? it belongs to these people. Let me give it back. Yeah.
01:23:16.31
Steve Barnes
Yeah, guess so. And speaking of which, why did that, I mean, that dude, what'd you say his name was? Puller? Color?
01:23:23.67
Lindsey Dunn
Fuller.
01:23:24.67
Steve Barnes
Fuller. He wouldn't let Daniel, like, hold on to that dagger, like, until, like, but not until the next day.
01:23:29.35
Lindsey Dunn
He let him carry it the next day.
01:23:33.49
Steve Barnes
Like, why?
01:23:33.75
Lindsey Dunn
Right. So what would he do? What's he going to do with it that that night?
01:23:38.17
Steve Barnes
Exactly. What was he going to do with it that night?
01:23:40.60
Lindsey Dunn
Well, they didn't know. i mean, they didn't know what it would do. So he's probably thinking, i need, you know, intel, need to keep this for safekeeping. And they didn't, because what did Rose say? It's not any, they know that it's not any harm or it it won't do any harm.
01:24:01.62
Lindsey Dunn
And yeah i I just saw that, that They're like, oh, this is a secret, you know, this is a weapon, so we'll hang on to this until you really need it.
01:24:12.57
Steve Barnes
Oh, just like straight up, you don't give prisoners weapons. Okay. Well, i mean, that makes realistic sense.
01:24:16.40
Lindsey Dunn
Right. I mean, you don't give them you don't give them a noose or anything. They don't want to lose Tanyal.
01:24:23.51
Steve Barnes
I was just thinking because it's magical. i was, I was just maybe thinking that perhaps Shaw was going to study it overnight or something or try to get some secrets from it.
01:24:34.26
Steve Barnes
Perhaps. I don't know.
01:24:35.61
Lindsey Dunn
I don't even know if he saw it.
01:24:39.41
Steve Barnes
That's true. Yeah.
01:24:40.22
Lindsey Dunn
I mean, she says she says she showed it to them, but who's them?
01:24:40.41
Steve Barnes
They're two different guys. Yeah.
01:24:45.04
Lindsey Dunn
Is it just the guards that were at the door or, you know, did she show it to Shaw?
01:24:49.27
Steve Barnes
Right.
01:24:51.43
Lindsey Dunn
Because all he saw was the magic slingshot. He only knows about the magic slingshot.
01:24:56.54
Steve Barnes
I guess that's true.
01:24:59.48
Steve Barnes
The magic shard is way better than the magic slingshot, in my opinion.
01:25:04.09
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah, yeah.
01:25:08.25
Steve Barnes
But yeah, I guess I'm good with moving on now to our last group, if you are.
01:25:10.43
Lindsey Dunn
Okay, I don't want to move until you were told me is ready. since I already had one false start. Okay, so yes, we're going to move on to our last little group, which is Charlotte, Polly, Russo, and Leroy Hanson.
01:25:27.90
Steve Barnes
Handling, you know, whatever.
01:25:28.97
Lindsey Dunn
Hanlon. Hanson? Who's the Hanson?
01:25:31.64
Steve Barnes
Yeah,
01:25:32.05
Lindsey Dunn
It's from the group Hanson, their singing group.
01:25:36.78
Steve Barnes
Leroy finally comes clean. He tells everything to Charlotte. And he's mad at Shaw, by the way, because he's like, why would you bring me into this mess and my family?
01:25:48.96
Steve Barnes
Shaw's like, well, i didn't think that y'all would move to Derry. I was hoping y'all would stay on the base where it's safe.
01:25:53.83
Lindsey Dunn
Thank you.
01:25:54.66
Steve Barnes
Leroy's like, yeah, uh-huh. So that's what they do. He decides to move his family to the base. And um Charlotte seems okay with that. And Will is not okay with that. He still wants to hang out with his friends. So the first chance he gets, he makes up a story about investigating the base and he hightails it up to his friends, of course.
01:26:16.85
Steve Barnes
um But yeah, Charlotte and Leroy here are finally on the same page. Leroy, the man without fear. I knew that this is what would happen, that it would use his own family against him because of course he doesn't have fear, but at the same time he wants to protect his family, but then he shoots his wife.
01:26:38.04
Steve Barnes
what What happened there? Lindsey? Lindsey?
01:26:43.59
Lindsey Dunn
I mean, he...
01:26:48.97
Lindsey Dunn
Polly tells him he doesn't see her.
01:26:52.66
Steve Barnes
Oh, that's right.
01:26:52.70
Lindsey Dunn
So then he...
01:26:53.11
Steve Barnes
so he So I guess he realizes that it's a vision and then he shoots.
01:26:56.70
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah, he realizes after his old reliable, his ride-or-die Polly Russo...
01:27:04.10
Steve Barnes
Ride or die, you say? Well, these two guys are teamed up together and yeah, that's apparently what happened because he has this vision of Charlotte so he believes these visions are just visions.
01:27:06.18
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
01:27:16.69
Steve Barnes
So then he sees the real Will goes to shoot it, Pauly also sees it's the real will. And this was one of the logistic issues, logistic things I had issue with, um because it didn't seem likely that Pauly could have jumped all the way in front of that long barreled rifle to catch that bullet. But he did, but he did.
01:27:39.90
Steve Barnes
um Because his... his His protective gene is so strong and so full of love that he was able to skirt in front of that gun and take a bullet for Will.
01:27:52.57
Steve Barnes
And yeah yeah, they killed Pauly here, Lindsey. We're not going to see him anymore. And why why didn't they make his last words, you know, how's my hair?
01:28:04.66
Lindsey Dunn
Hair.
01:28:05.69
Steve Barnes
And then he passes away. Why not?
01:28:08.47
Lindsey Dunn
Does my hair look okay? Yeah.
01:28:11.56
Steve Barnes
Missed opportunity.
01:28:11.86
Lindsey Dunn
They did another sort of cheesy line. Make it count.
01:28:16.60
Steve Barnes
Yeah. What would you say?
01:28:17.50
Lindsey Dunn
Make it count.
01:28:17.96
Steve Barnes
Like, keep it, make it count. Yeah.
01:28:20.70
Lindsey Dunn
And then he said, it's my turn. He said, those, those are the two things I saw. So, I mean, it was very, it was very reminiscent of like saving private Ryan.
01:28:26.90
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
01:28:31.50
Lindsey Dunn
He says, earn this. i hate that line from that movie. We get that. That's a, that's a story for another day, but. um
01:28:41.96
Steve Barnes
Or I'm thinking of stay gold, pony boy. That's like my dying phrase that I hate.
01:28:44.76
Lindsey Dunn
Hey, now don't, don't touch that one.
01:28:48.18
Steve Barnes
Sorry, just did. ah
01:28:49.75
Lindsey Dunn
Hands off! but here You've been slapped. Okay.
01:28:54.81
Steve Barnes
He tells Leroy to stay gold and Leroy does. But yeah, Pauly's ghost is still walking around out there though. So that's something to hope for.
01:29:02.65
Lindsey Dunn
We might we might see him again, Steve, in his ghost form.
01:29:07.54
Steve Barnes
Maybe he'll be helpful somehow.
01:29:09.50
Lindsey Dunn
That does seem kind of, you know, I know they they needed that to happen to make the point that Halloran can now see dead people, but
01:29:19.03
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm.
01:29:19.32
Lindsey Dunn
That was kind of upsetting in a way because Polly just is, he's just saved, he's done this sacrifice for his family, or his, well, his kind of family, his chosen family.
01:29:32.65
Steve Barnes
Chosen family. Yeah.
01:29:33.88
Lindsey Dunn
And does he get repaid? he doesn't He doesn't get to rest in peace. He has to like wander around looking confused in service of scaring Dick Halloran.
01:29:45.82
Steve Barnes
I guess so. yeah But it's for the greater good, you know, like you said, you got to, oh what was his dying word? You know, say it again.
01:29:56.06
Lindsey Dunn
ah make it count.
01:29:57.56
Steve Barnes
yeah He's got to make it count. He's got to make that apparition, spiritual visage count somehow.
01:30:00.15
Lindsey Dunn
ah so
01:30:05.76
Steve Barnes
So maybe he can, maybe he can scare Pennywise, you know, don't know. They could pull out a gun.
01:30:10.78
Lindsey Dunn
I want to, I want, if you're listening, Polly, I want to let you know your hair looked fabulous even in death. Oh.
01:30:17.62
Steve Barnes
Yeah, he's just kind of got, even when his hair is messed up, it still looks good. i guess it's the amount of cream he puts in it that holds its shape.
01:30:27.30
Lindsey Dunn
I'll tell you what I thought was going to happen here was actually before when when General Shaw has his one-on-one with Leroy and he says, hey, you can maybe you can move your family to the base.
01:30:32.73
Steve Barnes
Okay. Okay.
01:30:43.67
Lindsey Dunn
And Leroy says, there's no maybe about it. And he's like, sir. And he walks off and we so we see him getting in, you know, leaving the base with his family.
01:30:50.97
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
01:30:55.42
Lindsey Dunn
I thought they were just leaving. not leaving to move into the base. I thought he was like, I'm getting out of here, me and my family.
01:31:02.76
Steve Barnes
I'm going AWOL. Mm-hmm.
01:31:04.79
Lindsey Dunn
And I guess that's not in keeping with his character. That doesn't make sense for this man of duty. um But I, I was, at first I was like, yeah, hip, hip, hooray, you're leaving.
01:31:17.66
Steve Barnes
Oh, man.
01:31:17.78
Lindsey Dunn
But, but, you know, not because I want to get rid of him, but I thought that was, you know, he was, he would be making,
01:31:18.33
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
01:31:21.85
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
01:31:25.69
Lindsey Dunn
I mean, I didn't think it was going to work. I thought they were going to be like, where are you going? Oh, I'm going on a one night vacation with my family. And then he's going to escape.
01:31:36.10
Lindsey Dunn
And then General Shaw would be like, you're not leaving until you do X, Y, and z um That's not what happened. But he was just moving his family to another little apartment.
01:31:45.07
Steve Barnes
It's not.
01:31:47.95
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
01:31:49.66
Steve Barnes
Short-lived luxury. I'm sorry, Lindsey, but yep.
01:31:53.52
Lindsey Dunn
I did think that Charlotte, I didn't think she was totally cool with it.
01:31:53.53
Steve Barnes
Just.
01:31:57.69
Lindsey Dunn
um I mean, I, I mean, she, remember, she's also starting to make friends and she also has her, her work, her activism.
01:32:03.45
Steve Barnes
well
01:32:07.66
Lindsey Dunn
And if she's at the base, is she able to, um is she able to be free work, continue to work on Hank Grogan's case or is Leroy going to insist you stay on base at all times?
01:32:08.52
Steve Barnes
That's right.
01:32:20.73
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
01:32:22.07
Steve Barnes
Yeah, um that's a good point. It sounds like she's still working on Hank Grogan's case because she was in that small kitchen making phone calls and making checking up behind Hank Grogan to make sure he's all good. So I think she's still going to be good behind the scenes, but that's a great point. um She wants to be more in town and she wants to be more involved and on that military base. That's not the case except for, I mean, of course we know that she's going to have a ah little adventure ahead of her now because, you know, one of the last scenes is like Ingrid coming to the base to visit Charlotte, to let her know that, you know, they have Hank and that they need to hide out somewhere. So, I mean, Charlotte's right place, right time at this point.
01:33:04.42
Lindsey Dunn
Well, all she says is we have a mutual friend.
01:33:08.57
Steve Barnes
We know who the, it's not Stan. Yeah.
01:33:10.64
Lindsey Dunn
Well, no, I don't think it's Stan, but there was nothing said about we need a place to hide this dude. But yes, that's probably what
01:33:18.54
Steve Barnes
Well, no, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because like that, they were having a conversation in the woods. What are we going to do? oh oh, I know what we can do. and the next thing you know, they're talking to Charlotte.
01:33:27.51
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. Yes. I think that I think I'm on the same page, but there was, it's not, that's a future thing. We're speculating.
01:33:36.18
Steve Barnes
Right. And you know what, Lindsey, everybody is speculating from here on out. I'm serious because if we were one of these, you know, some people get advanced copies. I know sometimes you get advanced copies of shows and movies, but in this case, we did not get any advanced copies of Derry. So we're watching this on Sunday night and recording it the next night with, you know we don't get very much time. Right.
01:33:59.67
Steve Barnes
all these other podcasts and YouTubers and et cetera, et cetera. They got the first five episodes that they could watch.
01:34:06.42
Lindsey Dunn
Some of them did.
01:34:09.06
Steve Barnes
Oh, well, the ones that I've been listening to are now saying stuff like, we don't know what's going to happen because we don't have any more episodes to view and blah, blah, blah, blah.
01:34:16.95
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah, everybody who got screeners only got five.
01:34:17.10
Steve Barnes
So some people.
01:34:21.50
Steve Barnes
Yes. So all these YouTubers and podcasters like ourselves, um, we're all speculating from here on out for these last few episodes.
01:34:32.12
Lindsey Dunn
And we always have been.
01:34:34.48
Steve Barnes
Of course, because we're,
01:34:35.96
Lindsey Dunn
Except for when Steve looks at spoilers. Yeah.
01:34:39.90
Steve Barnes
Well, even the spoilers that I look at are not really real spoilers.
01:34:41.82
Lindsey Dunn
yes
01:34:43.54
Steve Barnes
They're just like spoiler images that they drop because they're allowed to drop them. They're like prepared spoilers to spurn conversation. So it's not like I'm getting any advanced information that nobody else has.
01:34:57.75
Steve Barnes
um i mean, I'm just like you guessing as we go.
01:34:59.86
Lindsey Dunn
yeah Well, there was that there was that one week that you said, oh, I know for sure next week the kids are going to be much older and and all that stuff.
01:35:08.06
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
01:35:08.36
Lindsey Dunn
And it's like,
01:35:08.86
Steve Barnes
Well, that's because that was a production note that that was advertised, not advertised.
01:35:13.01
Lindsey Dunn
yeah. Well, they didn't look they don't look that much older to me.
01:35:16.95
Steve Barnes
Oh, you don't think so? I think Will is the one that.
01:35:18.90
Lindsey Dunn
Only Will is, but it' it's not like his voice is all deep now.
01:35:19.59
Steve Barnes
know
01:35:22.54
Lindsey Dunn
And he's just a little taller.
01:35:22.87
Steve Barnes
No, it's not. Yeah.
01:35:24.74
Lindsey Dunn
He's a little taller, yeah.
01:35:25.06
Steve Barnes
And he's taller and his face has like gotten slimmer as well. Like his face has gotten taller too.
01:35:32.99
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
01:35:33.56
Steve Barnes
Will, you got a tall face.
01:35:38.26
Lindsey Dunn
So, yeah. i Well, I'm ready to break the episode unless there's anything you want to discuss.
01:35:44.29
Steve Barnes
I want to discuss your rating of the episode, Lindsey.
01:35:46.68
Lindsey Dunn
Okay. Do you want me to go first?
01:35:50.57
Steve Barnes
do. Yes, I do
01:35:51.54
Lindsey Dunn
Okay. Well, I guess you probably won't be surprised. I'm going to give this five turtles again.
01:35:58.34
Steve Barnes
I'm very surprised, actually. Five. This is another five episode for you.
01:36:03.16
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. You're surprised. I love this episode. I thought it just, I thought it just kept going. We had the reveal of Maddie. And even though it was a fake reveal, that was, that was quite something to see him again.
01:36:14.97
Lindsey Dunn
I never expected we'd see him again at all.
01:36:15.66
Steve Barnes
That's right.
01:36:17.85
Lindsey Dunn
um I think he was even in an interview. i saw him in an interview and he was, you know, that be he was being asked the question, is it possible Maddie's still alive? And he was doing a really great job, not giving anything away. um and For him to do the amount of work he did in this episode, you know, we didn't we didn't ever get to see much about him in the first episode.
01:36:42.52
Lindsey Dunn
it was
01:36:43.06
Steve Barnes
right
01:36:43.38
Lindsey Dunn
He was the first scene and that was it.
01:36:45.71
Steve Barnes
That's it?
01:36:46.26
Lindsey Dunn
And he really had to do a lot of different moods in this episode. So I thought it was it was great for him.
01:36:51.19
Steve Barnes
Oh, yeah.
01:36:53.29
Lindsey Dunn
and then we had this operation happen in the sewers, but of course it all went wrong. We had the kids high on mommy's little helper.
01:37:05.25
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm.
01:37:06.30
Lindsey Dunn
There just wasn't any drag at all for this episode. It was all very fast paced. i was on the I was on the seat of my pants. On the seat of my pants. That doesn't make any sense.
01:37:17.82
Steve Barnes
I was sitting down.
01:37:17.84
Lindsey Dunn
I
01:37:18.48
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm. ah was sitting down
01:37:22.86
Lindsey Dunn
was on the edge of my seat waiting to see what was going to happen. And it was very intense. So i i thought it was I thought it was a great episode. I kind of wish now that, you know, if I had so if i knew how this, you don't see what the episodes are going to be one after another.
01:37:44.34
Lindsey Dunn
so i I liked this episode even better than the episode last week.
01:37:49.94
Steve Barnes
Dang, so it's like a 5.1 kind of thing.
01:37:50.36
Lindsey Dunn
well Yeah, it's like it's like honors classes and a you actually got a 5.0 instead of 4.0.
01:37:52.34
Steve Barnes
Wow.
01:37:59.22
Steve Barnes
Yeah. You get like a little extra sticker on your diploma kind of thing.
01:38:02.84
Lindsey Dunn
An extra turtle sticker.
01:38:06.39
Steve Barnes
Well, yeah, I thought this episode was better than the last episode as well. So I also had to go up in my rating. I'm going up to four turtles this time around. This is the second episode I've given four out of five turtles to.
01:38:17.91
Steve Barnes
i did think there were a couple of um things, like the whole military plot had me scratching my head.
01:38:18.14
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm.
01:38:24.83
Steve Barnes
Opening fire on Tanyul. That had me like... jumping up in my seat, like with my fingers, crossed my, ah my eyes crossed and my arms in the air.
01:38:34.97
Steve Barnes
Like, what are you doing?
01:38:36.40
Lindsey Dunn
Plus, is it very safe to shoot a firearm in a sewer system?
01:38:40.44
Steve Barnes
no No, it's going to ricochet and hit you back in the eye. i mean, that's terrible. And then the Uncle Sam, I did not like the Uncle Sam visage.
01:38:50.70
Steve Barnes
I thought that was more humorous than anything, but I'll take humor.
01:38:50.69
Lindsey Dunn
know.
01:38:55.42
Steve Barnes
And the whole shooting Daniel thing, I think, it irritated me so much that I kind of ended up coming back around and thinking it was funny and liking it. So just all around, this was a fun ride.
01:39:08.18
Steve Barnes
So I got to give it four out of five.
01:39:08.66
Lindsey Dunn
Mm hmm.
01:39:10.18
Steve Barnes
I haven't seen that five turtle episode yet, but we're getting darn close.
01:39:15.66
Lindsey Dunn
I've only got three episodes left.
01:39:17.75
Steve Barnes
I know.
01:39:18.44
Lindsey Dunn
OK.
01:39:19.26
Steve Barnes
So we've got MVPs too this week.
01:39:20.50
Lindsey Dunn
and MVPs. Yes. Well, you can go first this time.
01:39:24.02
Steve Barnes
Okay. Um, I mean, bunch of strong contenders in here, but I'm going to have to give, even though I did not like his original appearance and that it was, I thought it was a bit of a lackluster experience.
01:39:38.14
Steve Barnes
he's been on everybody's minds and he's been so anticipatory and he gave his lines so well. And Pennywise, I'm going to give it up to you this week and give you MVP of the week because we've been waiting for you.
01:39:53.75
Steve Barnes
You did a great job. Thank you. Pennywise.
01:39:57.94
Lindsey Dunn
Pennywise?
01:39:59.32
Steve Barnes
Yes.
01:40:00.15
Lindsey Dunn
and but I'm shocked.
01:40:00.61
Steve Barnes
Pennywise. ah
01:40:01.90
Lindsey Dunn
I'm shocked.
01:40:03.54
Steve Barnes
He did a lot this episode. There was a lot of moving parts.
01:40:05.62
Lindsey Dunn
What did
01:40:07.22
Steve Barnes
He organized this whole thing about getting the kids in the sewer and Maddie, the Maddie puppet. in
01:40:13.46
Lindsey Dunn
okay that' Okay, this is interesting.
01:40:13.82
Steve Barnes
ah
01:40:15.38
Lindsey Dunn
This is interesting. Okay, I'll ah i'll let you.
01:40:17.14
Steve Barnes
Okay.
01:40:18.94
Lindsey Dunn
Maybe I'll tell you who my MVP is and then and then I'll tell you why. Then you'll you'll know why it's so interesting. My MVP is Maddie.
01:40:27.64
Steve Barnes
Little Maddie. e Okay.
01:40:28.73
Lindsey Dunn
Yes.
01:40:29.44
Steve Barnes
Little dead Maddie.
01:40:30.01
Lindsey Dunn
maddie maddy's
01:40:30.74
Steve Barnes
yeah
01:40:32.30
Lindsey Dunn
Maddie's and badty's acting as Pennywise because he is Pennywise, but it's mad the character of Miles Eckert, the actor of Miles Eckert,
01:40:36.63
Steve Barnes
Oh, okay.
01:40:43.74
Steve Barnes
Yes.
01:40:45.78
Lindsey Dunn
um being Maddie Clements as Pennywise.
01:40:50.07
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
01:40:50.17
Lindsey Dunn
So he you know he had to convince the Losers Club about why, how he survived. And he does that whole monologue about what happened to the kids and giving all the details about how the pert he was eating the brains in front of him.
01:41:05.04
Steve Barnes
Oh, that's right. Yeah.
01:41:11.93
Lindsey Dunn
I mean, it was it was pretty gruesome stuff. And his his little his little actor, you know, he did good with that. And then he the way that he hid his him his evilness inside of this little boy was great.
01:41:30.28
Lindsey Dunn
And then he had, then he transforms into Pennywise. So there was a lot for Miles Eckert to do in this performance. And so I'm giving it, I'm giving it to him So when you said Pennywise, I feel like all Pennywise really did is he finished the pole dance and then, you know, then he scared Lily in the tunnel.
01:41:39.46
Steve Barnes
That's right.
01:41:47.83
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm.
01:41:52.63
Steve Barnes
Good line delivery. Come on.
01:41:54.17
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. Yeah. We just said it wasn't that scary when he can and eat when what we saw him. But okay.
01:42:02.06
Steve Barnes
Well, didn't give it to him for being scary. I just think he had his he had his clown act together this time around.
01:42:04.89
Lindsey Dunn
me
01:42:08.73
Steve Barnes
That's all.
01:42:09.30
Lindsey Dunn
Okay. maybe Maybe I'm just tired of people complaining about Bill Skarsgård. You know, where's Pennywise? There's Pennywise. But, you know, I'm not going to judge you for who you chose as your MVP character, Steve.
01:42:21.98
Steve Barnes
You already are judging me really hard. I can feel it. And nobody's going to say that anymore because he's here now. So now they can all shut their mouths and enjoy Pennywise the next few episodes.
01:42:28.98
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
01:42:32.82
Lindsey Dunn
Thank God. Thank God.
01:42:37.23
Lindsey Dunn
But I'm glad you didn't say, I'm glad you didn't say Maddie. Cause I was like, oh gosh, if he, had if he, if he says Maddie, then I have to go to my number two. And I would just, I just thought he did a great job.
01:42:49.69
Lindsey Dunn
So.
01:42:51.29
Steve Barnes
Yeah, I mean, um yeah for me, it was it was either Pennywise or Dick Halloran. One of the two of them was going to get my MVP this week. I didn't consider Maddie, even though you make a very compelling case.
01:42:59.86
Lindsey Dunn
Okay.
01:43:03.99
Steve Barnes
Last week, I didn't give Marge the MVP. I gave the actress who portrayed Marge the MVP.
01:43:09.89
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm.
01:43:10.66
Steve Barnes
Just like it seems like you're doing the same thing for the actor who portrayed Maddie, who like, you're absolutely right. Knocked it out of the park this week.
01:43:18.67
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm. See, I thought you might do Polly Russo.
01:43:23.70
Steve Barnes
Oh, as like a goodbye tribute.
01:43:25.37
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah, because he's...
01:43:26.30
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
01:43:27.29
Lindsey Dunn
you you may or may not see him anymore. And he was he was one of your faves.
01:43:33.05
Steve Barnes
Well, he got it one week. So, you know, that's, that's all one, one is all you get Polly.
01:43:34.90
Lindsey Dunn
That's right. That's right. You got to pass the love around.
01:43:37.54
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
01:43:41.68
Lindsey Dunn
Okay, so what do we predict is going to happen next?
01:43:45.27
Steve Barnes
Oh boy. um Well, I think a solid prediction that we both kind of stumbled upon together is that the Neobolt house and the sewers are a misdirect to the pillars.
01:43:58.82
Steve Barnes
I think maybe we'll find out the pillars are actually somewhere else.
01:44:02.49
Lindsey Dunn
Right. Or they could still be on the outskirts of town, but like the best way to find the pillars is just to drive to them.
01:44:10.65
Steve Barnes
Yes. that's how That's how it looked to me anyway. They're like around the edge of the forest. Just pull up on your bike.
01:44:17.30
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. it kind of you know ah like My first question would be, is there an easier way to get to these than to go through the sewers? Because That looks just darn uncomfortable and wet.
01:44:30.68
Steve Barnes
Yeah, the the kids buried them like in the ground. You saw them buried them in like in like three feet deep holes like in on the ground, not in the sewers.
01:44:34.93
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
01:44:41.40
Lindsey Dunn
Right.
01:44:41.59
Steve Barnes
See, I'm curious how that goes about. I've already made my prediction for how the Hank Grogan thing is going to go down. i i do believe that's exactly how that's going to play out, is he's going to be hiding out the black spot.
01:44:52.92
Steve Barnes
Word will get out and they will go get him.
01:44:55.05
Lindsey Dunn
Right.
01:44:57.18
Steve Barnes
um As for the kids prediction, do you have a prediction for any of the kids? Because I did all my predictions just now. How about you?
01:45:05.66
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah, i I didn't really have any with the kids. i already kind of said my doomsday predictions last week about the kids. um But I guess the only other, i had i kind of had the same things you just said.
01:45:19.86
Lindsey Dunn
The only other thing I have is speculation about the title because the title next week is in the name of the father. And so I was thinking, okay, who has a father relationship that that could be referring to?
01:45:34.64
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm.
01:45:35.90
Lindsey Dunn
And so I was like, well, Leroy and Will, obviously.
01:45:39.40
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm.
01:45:39.53
Lindsey Dunn
Lily and her dad. General Shaw and his dad. And then Bob Gray and Mrs. Kirsch.
01:45:47.02
Steve Barnes
That's what I was thinking. Yes.
01:45:47.86
Lindsey Dunn
Those were the child, um the child father relationships that I know of in this show. Well, Ronnie and Hank is also a a father child.
01:46:01.30
Lindsey Dunn
um So, yeah.
01:46:03.24
Steve Barnes
I kind of think in the name of the father, I'm kind of thinking that, yeah, my first instinct was Bob Gray and Ingrid. And I'm thinking that maybe you and Heather are right that Ingrid right now, episode five, she's altruistic.
01:46:21.46
Steve Barnes
She's just a normal, nice Derry woman who drinks milk instead of the water. But maybe next episode in the name of the father, in the name of my father, Bob Gray, I now have a new purpose in life.
01:46:34.42
Steve Barnes
And that is to be Perry Winkle, the clown, perhaps and she'll go on a spree.
01:46:37.84
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm.
01:46:41.18
Steve Barnes
i mean, it it's a, like it's a likely scenario. um i also predict that. Rich doesn't make it to the end of the season and that Marge will be Richie Tozier's father and that Rich, this Rich, will be the namesake.
01:47:05.08
Steve Barnes
of Richie. Like she will name her firstborn son after her first love. This guy who held her hand in the sewer. That's kind of, that's kind of what I'm thinking that he's not going to be her dad, but not going to be Richie's dad, but Richie's inspiration for his name.
01:47:21.71
Lindsey Dunn
Hmm. Okay, you're still you're still going with that Marge is Tozer's Tozer mom, huh?
01:47:27.90
Steve Barnes
Absolutely, dude. It's see it. I mean, it seems like a no brainer to me, honestly, just like we know that like, um, will Hanlon is Mike's dad.
01:47:38.94
Steve Barnes
Um, I think it's been telegraphed very loudly that this is going to be Richie's mom.
01:47:45.06
Lindsey Dunn
Hmm. I don't know. I'm going let, I'm going to let you keep that one, Steve. um
01:47:49.50
Steve Barnes
and Okay. In my pocket.
01:47:51.86
Lindsey Dunn
Um, yeah, the, yeah, I do. If he's going to, Hank Grogan's going to hide out at the black spot, he's going to have to be introduced to Dick Halloran.
01:48:03.16
Steve Barnes
Yes. Yes.
01:48:03.58
Lindsey Dunn
So that hasn't happened yet. We see that Ingrid and Charlotte are going to chit, chit, chat.
01:48:11.83
Steve Barnes
yes
01:48:12.15
Lindsey Dunn
So, um, I don't know. I'm just, I'm trying to figure out how that would happen, but it doesn't matter. We're going to see it eventually. But so far, Hank Grogan and, you know, Dick Keller hasn't.
01:48:26.04
Steve Barnes
fill in the blanks for you. Hank's going to, they're going say, Hank, you can, okay, here, here's my, here's my husband, Leroy. Hello, how you do? And this is some other guy will, I mean, Dick that he works with. Hello, how you do? um I need a place to stay. There's this place that we're doing black spot. You can stay there.
01:48:43.83
Steve Barnes
And then, Hank is known as like the dude that's crashing out at the black spot. Every it's kind of like on everybody, the back of everybody's tongue, like, oh, there's some dude that's like hiding out at the black spot.
01:48:57.88
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah, but there's there's there's a problem with that theory.
01:48:58.23
Steve Barnes
And I think that word gets around that way.
01:49:04.92
Steve Barnes
Okay.
01:49:05.88
Lindsey Dunn
The problem is that we think Leroy is going to be okay with them hiding a fugitive at the black spot.
01:49:15.10
Steve Barnes
Oh, maybe not. Maybe instead Charlotte will go straight to Dick and bypass Leroy. Cause right now Leroy has nothing to do with the black spot whatsoever.
01:49:26.62
Steve Barnes
Like he's never even been inside of it.
01:49:26.82
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm.
01:49:28.62
Steve Barnes
He'd seem to have little interest in it when he was there.
01:49:31.70
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
01:49:31.86
Steve Barnes
So yeah, you, I think you just, you just did it for me, Lindsey. Charlotte goes straight to Dick instead. Cause he's kind of like an impartial third party.
01:49:40.12
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. Or they might just, she might just, they might just found out about that this place exists. Maybe like nobody's, no maybe nobody's okaying it, but they're like, hey, there's going to be this club and he shows, I don't know. I don't know.
01:49:59.10
Lindsey Dunn
I don't know how many of these people actually know Hank. You know, he works at the movie theater, but do the military go to the movie theater? Who knows?
01:50:08.27
Steve Barnes
No, but it seems like everybody knows Lily's business. So it seems like word gets around town pretty quickly.
01:50:15.68
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. Well, we'll see soon enough. um So, so let's, do you have any plugs for this week, Steve?
01:50:27.03
Lindsey Dunn
Anything you want to promote?
01:50:29.78
Steve Barnes
Well, I always want to plug our, um, our main network MLM pod, which is found at patreon.com slash MLM pod. Um, my website is sweetchildoftime.com and you can find me on all the regular social places, Instagram, Facebook, Reddit.
01:50:49.65
Steve Barnes
I'm at all those places, but Instagram seems to be where I spend a good amount of time at. So look me up on there. Sweet child of time pod. Uh, how about you, Lindsey?
01:51:00.31
Lindsey Dunn
Well, I wanted to mention that my review of The Carpenter's Son is now up. So I did the interview with the director. Now I've reviewed the film. And a big change is now one of my stories is now on YouTube. I mean, I've always been on YouTube. I've done, had my interviews and my video reviews. But now my podcast, because of my change to moving my podcasting host to Riverside,
01:51:28.76
Lindsey Dunn
Each of my episodes of the podcast will now also air on YouTube automatically, like you had for a while.
01:51:35.86
Steve Barnes
nice
01:51:37.03
Lindsey Dunn
So that's that's nice. We'll see.
01:51:38.90
Steve Barnes
They'll do.
01:51:39.91
Lindsey Dunn
I'm not sure how many people listen to a podcast on YouTube, but okay. Some people some people seem to think that you know that it's you should go ahead and drop those episodes.
01:51:51.89
Steve Barnes
I think it all depends. Like when I was releasing my wheel of time episodes with James, I was getting way more listens on YouTube than I was anywhere else.
01:52:01.84
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
01:52:02.81
Steve Barnes
But that was the only case of that was like the wheel of time podcast. And now with Welcome to Derry, I get like maybe like a dozen to 20 listens on YouTube. But I mean, those are like extra listens that you wouldn't normally get.
01:52:16.55
Steve Barnes
under your podcast. So, you know, it's definitely worth it to do it. And some people do like a lot of people just have YouTube music and they use that app as like their music and their podcast app. And so those people will definitely find value with that.
01:52:32.57
Lindsey Dunn
Interesting. Okay. Um, the, the kind of the last two reviews for the year, I have to write a review of wicked for good and running man. Those are two movies i saw screeners for.
01:52:45.75
Lindsey Dunn
i will tell you neither one of them are that good. So if you really love wicked, wicked part one you should see it. But, um, Those reviews will be coming out soon is what I should say.
01:52:58.18
Lindsey Dunn
Not tell you what I think of the movie. Don't do a review right now, Lindsey. Just say they'll be coming soon. Yeah.
01:53:04.78
Steve Barnes
I'm fascinated by the press of Wicked the Good. However, it's befuddling the press releases that I'm seeing of those two actresses.
01:53:16.60
Lindsey Dunn
yeah Oh, well, the Proplicity Tour, yes, is going crazy. that's That's separate from the movie, but in a way it's it's connected.
01:53:21.62
Steve Barnes
Yes.
01:53:25.52
Lindsey Dunn
It's part of
01:53:25.70
Steve Barnes
It's enough to keep me befuddled. I'll tell you that.
01:53:31.06
Lindsey Dunn
Okay. Well, i think I think we've said everything we have to say for this week's episode. So, thank you for joining us in this episode of Welcome to Derry. May all the clowns you meet be kind. May all the friends you've met be kept safe in your hearts. And we hope to see you all next week for episode six.
01:53:50.57
Lindsey Dunn
In the name of the Father, goodbye.
01:53:53.93
Steve Barnes
Bye bye.
 |
| Chris Chalk as HALLORANN |
We also discover that Hank's secret lover is no other than Ingrid, Lilly's trusted housekeeper friend from Juniper Hill, and the wife of Stan Kersch the Butcher.
This was certainly an episode with lots of twists, turns, and suspense. It's the perfect start to a well-laid crescendo towards a glorious and terrifying season 1 climax at The Black Spot. Steve and I give our predictions and awards for MVP character, plus our episode rating. Next weeks episode will be titled In the Name of the Father. Which father do you think this points to?
 |
| Clara Stack as LILLY |
Steve Barnes is guitarist for stoner metal band Introvoid, and also plays guitar for the cover band Rebecca Crow. All of Steve's stuff can be found at Sweetchildoftime.com.
Lindsey Dunn is a film critic with membership in both NC Film Critics and Southeastern Film Critics. She loves all things Cobra Kai, Netflix Dark, indie horror, and any stories about complicated relationships. You can find her at 1ofmystories.com and most social channels @1ofmystories.
 |
| Clara Stack as LILLY; Matilda Lawler as MARGE |
Transcript of the episode
00:00:02.45
Lindsey Dunn
Hello and welcome to Welcome to Derry. I'm Lindsey Dunn, your host of the 1 of My Stories podcast. And with me today is your other host from the Sweet Child of Time podcast.
00:00:14.41
Lindsey Dunn
I'm hoping it's the real one and not a manifestation trying to kill me by preying on my greatest fears. It's Steve Barnes. Ahoy, Steve.
00:00:23.02
Steve Barnes
Ahoy, Lindsey. It's really me. I swear to God, it's really me. You know it's me because I just took three of my mommy's Valiums and I'm ready to hold hands.
00:00:36.00
Lindsey Dunn
I know, that was ah actually almost my intro was something about us holding hands. We're not holding hands.
00:00:43.58
Steve Barnes
Why not? They're so soft and subtle like Noxzema. Noxzema.
00:00:46.49
Lindsey Dunn
and Feels just like Noxzema and a baby, a what did he say? A kitten's belly? i could I can't remember what she said, it was very funny.
00:00:54.55
Steve Barnes
That's exactly what she said. Yes. There were an adorable little couple there.
00:00:57.14
Lindsey Dunn
yes
00:00:58.15
Steve Barnes
What a great way to start our show. Not even a minute in and we're reminiscing about those cute kids.
00:01:06.00
Lindsey Dunn
Um, so yes, we're here to recap a TV show. So here we are at episode five, which is called, i thought it was just called Nybolt street, but nay, it's 29 Nybolt street.
00:01:12.52
Steve Barnes
Yup.
00:01:18.90
Lindsey Dunn
It's very specific.
00:01:19.03
Steve Barnes
Oh, yes it is.
00:01:21.02
Lindsey Dunn
So what are your overall reactions to this episode?
00:01:25.18
Steve Barnes
Yeah, I think this episode could have been called Redemptions and Reunions. It would have been nice alliteration thing um because that's what I got out of this. I got a great redemption story. with with um Marge and I got some reunions with a couple of fellows, um somebody that's been long awaited. So that's a lot of fun.
00:01:44.73
Steve Barnes
um I mean, yeah, this was a little bit of a far fetched plot, this whole military thing. um little bit silly with some logistical problems, but I mean, the plots are all kind of coming together and this whole arc with Mrs. Kirsch and Hank Grogan, fitting into the main story really nicely.
00:02:06.78
Steve Barnes
I was having a lot of fun and loving it, even though there was a couple WTF moments where I kind of was like, um, what? But other than those moments, I was having a lot, even any of those moments where I was questioning what was happening, I was still having fun.
00:02:23.06
Steve Barnes
This was just a fun all around episode. Um, do you agree? Where are you thinking about this one?
00:02:29.56
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah, I thought this was another another wonderful episode. i was very swept up into the into the momentum of it.
00:02:40.09
Lindsey Dunn
ah
00:02:40.15
Steve Barnes
Right.
00:02:41.50
Lindsey Dunn
Some of the... Yeah, just... And it was but it was like a rollercoaster ride. There was a lot of misdirection. um there were some There were some detours.
00:02:51.26
Steve Barnes
right
00:02:55.00
Lindsey Dunn
I kind of thought we were going to go into the... It just didn't play out the way I thought. you know I knew we were going to go into the sewers and that the military were going to go looking for these pillars and I knew Pennywise was supposed to show up.
00:03:12.25
Steve Barnes
Right.
00:03:12.41
Lindsey Dunn
ah But I didn't really expect for there to be this detour for Dick Halloran where he kind of left the main plot for a bit
00:03:18.90
Steve Barnes
Sure.
00:03:20.86
Lindsey Dunn
So we had we had a lot of stuff going on. There were a lot of arms and legs going on, as as my old one of my old bosses used to say. Got a lot of arms and legs going on. ah But it it came together very nicely, and there were some sad moments. There were some funny moments.
00:03:41.08
Lindsey Dunn
i I thought it was great. If you look really closely, yes, you can find flaws with anything. But I was just wrapped up in the experience of watching the show and wondering what's going to happen next.
00:03:57.37
Steve Barnes
Yeah, um I can second almost all of that. i think Reed, maybe we talked to Reed. I wonder if you like the pacing better of this episode. Cause like you said, this one really, I mean, from scene to scene there was, I didn't think there was any drag at all. It, you know, just kept moving forward and what a fun misdirection at the beginning here. When we, when we see that, that young Maddie come out of that tent, that was just a really exciting moment.
00:04:26.20
Steve Barnes
And even though he looked so ghostly and pale, I think he fooled most of the audience with that. He fooled me for sure. Even though I noted how pale he was. I mean, that was real.
00:04:37.28
Steve Barnes
I mean, that was a fun misdirect for the whole audience, especially with him saying that Phil's alive and I could just see all those Reddit nerds like I knew it. I knew it. And, and my daughter.
00:04:48.78
Lindsey Dunn
Stevie, it's funny that you mentioned the Reddit nerds because I was picturing you saying, because you mentioned, you know, you thought, we had a discussion about if Maddie was alive, and I was thinking, oh man, and Steve's going to have a field day with this when he tells me how right he was and how wrong I was.
00:04:57.07
Steve Barnes
hmm. Yes.
00:05:10.10
Lindsey Dunn
But.
00:05:10.36
Steve Barnes
Right, right.
00:05:10.44
Lindsey Dunn
That's it.
00:05:12.02
Steve Barnes
i was having fun with that, especially with the whole Phil thing. I don't know if you remember back in, um I think it was episode three. i was talking about
00:05:21.94
Steve Barnes
um me and my daughter Charlotte watching the first two episodes together. And she made this bold prediction from the get go. She's like, oh, Maddie is Pennywise. I know right now Maddie is Pennywise. He's really Pennywise. How right she was.
00:05:46.60
Lindsey Dunn
Well, she was right and she was wrong.
00:05:49.82
Steve Barnes
she was right. If she saw that scene with, with doing the pole dance and Maddie turning to Pennywise, you know, that she would slap me in the face and say, I told you dad. yeah
00:06:01.52
Lindsey Dunn
Right, but in episode one, that wasn't Pennywise.
00:06:05.27
Steve Barnes
it was not, but you know, she got her comeuppance though.
00:06:06.42
Lindsey Dunn
Right.
00:06:08.27
Steve Barnes
I got to hand it to her.
00:06:10.14
Lindsey Dunn
But will say it's set up this nice idea now that Pennywise can take over anybody.
00:06:20.95
Lindsey Dunn
um
00:06:21.21
Steve Barnes
Sure.
00:06:21.88
Lindsey Dunn
And we've talked about a particular character, that being Ingrid, And, you know, the fact that she's nice now, and then if if she's indeed the Mrs.
00:06:26.33
Steve Barnes
h h
00:06:35.06
Lindsey Dunn
Kirsch we see later with at Beverly's house, it's set up this continuity now that somebody that is a nice person could become a villain by the end because Pennywise can take on the form of anybody who's dead, apparently.
00:06:36.73
Steve Barnes
Right.
00:06:53.21
Steve Barnes
Right. Yeah. Maybe anybody who's, I mean, he can't take, or i don't know if he can take over the form of anybody who's alive. He took over Marge's, in their minds he can, because he took over Marge last episode.
00:06:59.64
Lindsey Dunn
Have we seen that?
00:07:05.62
Steve Barnes
She thought that it was inside of her body and she was turning into a snail or something. So, it's almost like his powers are endless in a way.
00:07:13.78
Lindsey Dunn
And I'm trying to think of, yeah, I'm trying to think of the people we've seen though, if they've had a vision of something, has that person always been dead? You know, that, that would be a good, a good thing to study closely and kind of, yeah.
00:07:26.71
Steve Barnes
Yeah, sure.
00:07:28.38
Lindsey Dunn
But, uh, Well, let's talk about, I'm curious with the Maddie appearance.
00:07:34.20
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
00:07:34.62
Lindsey Dunn
Take me through your journey with that. at what
00:07:38.49
Steve Barnes
Okay.
00:07:39.03
Lindsey Dunn
At what point in the plot did you track that there was something off with Maddie?
00:07:46.78
Steve Barnes
um It was when they were all getting loopy on the Valium and everybody had their moment.
00:07:51.29
Lindsey Dunn
Right.
00:07:53.66
Steve Barnes
And then Maddie turns around and says, we're almost there. And he seems completely normal. And I was like, uh-o um that's what that was my first inkling.
00:07:58.63
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
00:08:02.71
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. that Me too. that was That was the moment that, I mean, and now that I go back and I look, there's some other signs that show up.
00:08:05.24
Steve Barnes
Okay.
00:08:10.30
Steve Barnes
Yes, there are. Right.
00:08:11.54
Lindsey Dunn
ah But the way that I was excusing it in my mind is this guy is so terrified that it doesn't matter. You know, he's so hopped up on fear.
00:08:20.02
Steve Barnes
right
00:08:22.12
Lindsey Dunn
But out of all the kids, he was the only one that wasn't acting like he had just gotten Novocaine at the dentist. so
00:08:30.23
Steve Barnes
Yeah, that's right. And how pale he was in the beginning, watching it the second time, it looks very obvious. But then, you know, the watching it the first time you're like, oh, this kid is near death and he's been in the sewers for three months, three months or something.
00:08:43.80
Lindsey Dunn
Right, he hasn't had sunlight.
00:08:46.22
Steve Barnes
So you're kind of excusing the fact that he's so pale and gross looking.
00:08:46.49
Lindsey Dunn
who
00:08:50.02
Steve Barnes
It kind of makes sense with the plot.
00:08:52.98
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. I also, the other thing that might have been a visible tell, maybe not, is his hair. that, um and I'm thinking about how, you know, he wasn't exactly the most fashionable kid, but his, you, again, it's in something you could excuse.
00:09:09.61
Steve Barnes
Right.
00:09:12.38
Lindsey Dunn
Oh, he's been away and in the sewer, so he hasn't had a haircut, but it did, it did seem like his hair all a sudden came, became quite long.
00:09:16.28
Steve Barnes
right
00:09:24.05
Steve Barnes
Okay. Yeah. did I, that didn't, that actually made sense to me because he does, he disappeared on new year's Eve or winter time.
00:09:24.63
Lindsey Dunn
Um,
00:09:28.07
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm.
00:09:32.89
Steve Barnes
And now, it seems like it's summertime. They're riding bikes with short sleeve shirts on and they're in Maine.
00:09:38.81
Lindsey Dunn
Right.
00:09:39.42
Steve Barnes
So, you know, that, that's, that didn't really throw me through a loop, the hair thing.
00:09:43.54
Lindsey Dunn
and Okay.
00:09:44.02
Steve Barnes
What I thought is,
00:09:44.47
Lindsey Dunn
I guess, yeah.
00:09:45.69
Steve Barnes
He looked like a young Jack White to me because Jack White's very pale, has that same haircut, kind of has a very similar face. that's rob That's where I was going with this kid. Give him some rock star cred.
00:09:56.44
Lindsey Dunn
Okay. Yeah. it would It would have been funny if his hair had turned red Then, yeah, then that'd be sort of a little more obvious, I guess.
00:10:10.34
Lindsey Dunn
Okay, so sounds like we had some feedback.
00:10:14.84
Steve Barnes
Yeah, we got a little bit of feedback on my end here. um fellow named Brian K hit me up on the Discord just with some some kind words. And he was listening to us when we were doing 100 Years of Solitude. You and I were doing that on these very podcasts, Lindsey, a couple years ago. He's looking forward to season two when we do that.
00:10:34.81
Steve Barnes
And he just says that I'm blessed with great co-hosts. That means you, Lindsey. So, hey, I'm blessed with some Lindsey.
00:10:41.45
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm.
00:10:44.31
Steve Barnes
ah That was Brian K. And then we had um an individual on Reddit. um um' I'm guessing she's a female. You can't harm a good woman. That's what their title is. And they hit us up with with a lot of words here. And I'm just going to kind of condense it down to um They predicted that the great swirling apparatus, because they answered some of our questions that we asked last episode. um According to them, that's the deadlights. they They consider the deadlights to be the great swirling apparatus. Don't know if they're right or they're wrong, but I mean, it's something to think about.
00:11:18.97
Steve Barnes
I love this speculation that she gave us. She talks about the ah the iron fence around the well house at 29 Neobolt Street. And they have those iron spikes on the top of fences to stop kids from jumping over your fence.
00:11:36.73
Steve Barnes
And she said the shards are part of the meteorite that has been entrapping it before it fell to earth. And the idea is only those shards can defeat it. And it part two, Beverly gives Eddie one of those tines from the iron fence and tells Eddie that this kills monsters.
00:11:55.13
Steve Barnes
So they were speculating that, that that could have been potentially one of the shards and trapping Galoo, maybe symbolizing one of those shards. pasa In my opinion, maybe that's where Andy Muschietti started getting this crazy idea about the shards. Cause it's a, it's a Muschietti thing.
00:12:12.98
Steve Barnes
Is that, that, that is correct. Right. That was, I'm asking you because I've read the books and these shards were not part of the books. It all is part of the movie. Correct.
00:12:23.59
Steve Barnes
Lindsey.
00:12:25.34
Lindsey Dunn
Well, that, yes, that's the first time I saw them, but I've only read the book once.
00:12:30.30
Steve Barnes
Okay.
00:12:30.39
Lindsey Dunn
So if if if we're wrong about that, then, then let us, let us know.
00:12:33.30
Steve Barnes
Well, I just read the book. So the shards are definitely not in there. Um, but yeah, they were speculating that that shard from the movie could be carried over here.
00:12:43.86
Steve Barnes
And then their last point was they, they disagree with some of what we said about Ronnie. We didn't really, we said that she didn't have much to do and they basically wrapped it up and they said that there's a dynamic that plays out in reality, believing black girls and black women. Um,
00:13:00.54
Steve Barnes
So, you know, they wanted to make that point that that's something that they saw that they resonated with last episode, that they saw Ronnie as not being believed or listened to. And that's representative of culture perhaps.
00:13:14.10
Steve Barnes
um So yeah, that's a lot that they threw on us there. um and We had a third um Discord user that I'm sorry, I did not write down their name and I only bring them up because You know, they they said that we're doing a great job, but they also gave some props to Reed from last week.
00:13:32.30
Steve Barnes
And they said they really enjoyed Reed and his fear of fear of God and his appearance on our show. So that's also worth mentioning.
00:13:38.54
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
00:13:39.52
Steve Barnes
Thank you again, Reed.
00:13:41.22
Lindsey Dunn
Everybody loves Reed!
00:13:42.86
Steve Barnes
it's My wife did too. I told you.
00:13:48.58
Lindsey Dunn
Yep, he's a great guest and a great host for his own show. We're
00:13:53.18
Steve Barnes
Maybe he'll invite us back on his show sometime to watch what it part three. ah
00:13:59.30
Lindsey Dunn
not begging. We're just asking.
00:14:01.72
Steve Barnes
ah but
00:14:02.62
Lindsey Dunn
Well, thank you for everybody who wrote in comments. were we're We're glad to hear people listening. I also heard from Deb who um you know she just was telling me that she appreciated the shout out we gave her and that she thought that was, it was nice that we had included her in our discussion.
00:14:22.30
Lindsey Dunn
so I was like, yes, of course, send us more thoughts and we'll include them as well.
00:14:26.14
Steve Barnes
yeah We just did it again and you didn't even say anything. So there you go, Deb.
00:14:33.34
Lindsey Dunn
Okay. um Yeah. I want to make, I guess I want to speak back about the Ronnie thing. Our people, our comments, I feel like our comments about Ronnie really didn't have anything to do with, against her, it's more what the show gave her to do.
00:14:53.82
Lindsey Dunn
And, you know, that race is definitely an issue that comes up in this show.
00:14:54.46
Steve Barnes
yes
00:15:00.02
Lindsey Dunn
And I feel, um you know, some what what was what you want to of what you want to avoid for sure is you don't want their whole storyline to be about their race.
00:15:11.42
Lindsey Dunn
But that definitely is an aspect that we have to consider that um I did see, for instance, some ah discussion on different posts about people being kind of annoyed that Ronnie feels like her problems are worse than Lily's problems.
00:15:14.94
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm.
00:15:29.42
Lindsey Dunn
For instance, you know, when she's telling her, you got to tell, you got to tell them about my dad and Liz like, but they'll send me back. And it kind of looked to people like, oh,
00:15:40.09
Lindsey Dunn
Ronnie just cares about her situation. She doesn't care about Lily's, but because she's, you know, she's the marginalized person in this situation. And if Lily goes to the hospital, she might not be treated very nicely, but she's not going to be killed the same as Hank Grogan is for going to an electric chair, you know, by death by an electric chair.
00:16:04.50
Lindsey Dunn
So,
00:16:05.37
Steve Barnes
Right. And plus, I mean, to your point, if Lily ends up going to Juniper Hill for an extended stay, then she's no help to Ronnie whatsoever. So it takes her off the playing field.
00:16:14.33
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. Yeah. Okay, with that, let's move into our Kitchener Ironworks Easter egg hunt.
00:16:23.46
Steve Barnes
All right. Yeah, they didn't really give us a ton. i think... A lot of things that people might think were Easter eggs were big plot points this week.
00:16:33.78
Steve Barnes
So they don't really count.
00:16:34.47
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm.
00:16:35.30
Steve Barnes
So I think we, we kind of, we shook hands and we agreed, Lindsey, that our Easter eggs are just going to be strictly Easter eggs, meaning that they're going to be background items that people might have missed, like in the true sense of the word.
00:16:40.01
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm.
00:16:51.06
Steve Barnes
Right.
00:16:52.12
Lindsey Dunn
Or I would say it doesn't have to be a background item, but it it's something that connects to another another book or a series that...
00:17:04.95
Lindsey Dunn
And also, i would say we don't want to keep repeating the same Easter eggs over and over again.
00:17:09.72
Steve Barnes
Right. Exactly.
00:17:10.87
Lindsey Dunn
Like, we've already mentioned that there's red balloons or there's turtles.
00:17:14.90
Steve Barnes
Right.
00:17:15.06
Lindsey Dunn
So there's no need... to do it again, unless we learn something new about the turtle or a new aspect of the book that wasn't brought into it before.
00:17:21.56
Steve Barnes
Sure.
00:17:22.76
Lindsey Dunn
Um, but I also want to say that I think it's a good sign maybe that we're not, they're not spending as much time on Easter eggs because that means we're getting into the meat, you know, we're getting, getting these meaty episodes.
00:17:35.67
Steve Barnes
ah Okay.
00:17:37.21
Lindsey Dunn
so they know that people, they want people to be invested in the story. So they know they're not going to be sitting there going, Oh, look at this or over here. um Yeah, so that's just me.
00:17:48.33
Steve Barnes
They're still doing it they're still doing it a little bit, though. A little bit.
00:17:51.35
Lindsey Dunn
Yes. All right, so what what's your first one?
00:17:54.84
Steve Barnes
um Mrs. Kirsch's kitchen. We get another glimpse of that fabled picture of Bob Gray and his daughter sitting um by the, what do you call it? The clown clown car thingy. So that same picture that we saw in It Part 2, we see it once again in her kitchen.
00:18:13.74
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm. They might as well just start selling copies of it.
00:18:17.21
Steve Barnes
Yeah, why not?
00:18:17.69
Lindsey Dunn
You gave us a souvenir.
00:18:18.21
Steve Barnes
I'd buy one.
00:18:22.21
Lindsey Dunn
So my I put my first one as Maddie's yellow tent as an Easter egg.
00:18:27.16
Steve Barnes
Okay. How's that an Easter egg?
00:18:29.53
Lindsey Dunn
Well, because yes, some people sleep in tents, but where else do you see tents?
00:18:36.49
Steve Barnes
Circus?
00:18:36.95
Lindsey Dunn
At the circus. Yeah.
00:18:38.14
Steve Barnes
Okay, all right.
00:18:38.79
Lindsey Dunn
but and it did I thought it was sort of a clever tell right at the very beginning that This was not a normal Maddie sighting, but it was, it wasn't something, ah it wasn't something really obvious.
00:18:51.67
Steve Barnes
Okay.
00:18:55.78
Lindsey Dunn
I thought it was nice and in the background, they also gave it a nice Dutch angle. It was at the creepy angle that it's not.
00:19:03.54
Steve Barnes
That's true. That's true.
00:19:06.33
Lindsey Dunn
And, um but yeah, I think that when you, during this the Francis flashback in 1908, when the man,
00:19:06.52
Steve Barnes
But a I...
00:19:15.16
Lindsey Dunn
when the man leads him into the tent. It's a yellow tent. So it was it was kind of a way to reference that this is a clown without without um saying that or being real obvious about it.
00:19:19.91
Steve Barnes
Okay.
00:19:26.61
Steve Barnes
Okay.
00:19:29.30
Steve Barnes
I will counter that and just let you know that we have seen that tent in every episode so far because we've been in the standpipe every episode and that tent's been there the whole time.
00:19:39.80
Lindsey Dunn
Right, but you haven't paid attention to it really up until now.
00:19:44.06
Steve Barnes
Okay. All right. and I have, but it's it's definitely something that needs to be mentioned because it hasn't been mentioned yet.
00:19:45.11
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
00:19:50.70
Steve Barnes
And it's this is the first time it's come into play.
00:19:51.24
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
00:19:54.19
Steve Barnes
So it's come it's come to life this episode.
00:19:55.35
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
00:19:57.53
Steve Barnes
So I'll give it to you, yo. um Yeah, I've only got really one more besides like all the major stuff that happened in the story. um That is they discussed the Paul Bunyan statue in this episode and the protesting crowd is really getting riled up.
00:20:15.74
Steve Barnes
um They talked about an individual that tried to chop off one of his legs with a chainsaw. So an axe.
00:20:22.74
Lindsey Dunn
An axe.
00:20:24.41
Steve Barnes
Okay, there you go. So yeah, that's that's my second one is that that's it's starting to, it was in the background, so you really could have missed um that story, but it was there in the background.
00:20:34.58
Steve Barnes
And that's the last one that I have.
00:20:39.01
Lindsey Dunn
I had the well that they went down. that That's the same you know well from the Losers Club.
00:20:45.52
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm.
00:20:47.35
Lindsey Dunn
um
00:20:47.54
Steve Barnes
Yes. Yes.
00:20:49.34
Lindsey Dunn
That's that place where Henry attacks... um attacks Mike Hanlon with the sheep gun.
00:20:57.85
Steve Barnes
Yep.
00:20:58.17
Lindsey Dunn
um The only other one I had was Dick and the bathtub. um I just thought it was kind of a nice tie-in with The Shining because Danny keeps seeing his creepy people in a bathroom.
00:21:10.36
Steve Barnes
I thought so too. Mm-hmm.
00:21:17.27
Lindsey Dunn
So that seems to be a fresh, I mean, we know bathrooms are are a big deal in Derry. Bathrooms are the size of a day.
00:21:25.02
Steve Barnes
Everybody hears dead people from the drains, yeah.
00:21:27.48
Lindsey Dunn
yeah But it did connect to The Shining and and that book as well.
00:21:32.18
Steve Barnes
did you Did you almost expect because Dick comes up out of the bathtub and he's all like shivering and stuff, and then like we see a woman's hand?
00:21:40.35
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm.
00:21:40.47
Steve Barnes
I was almost thinking that it was going to be the woman from room 237. That was my first instinct thought, was that it was going to be a direct shining tie-in, and he was going to be in the room with that woman. So I was relieved to see it was Grandma. She's so nice.
00:21:57.18
Lindsey Dunn
i I don't know if I was relieved but ah yeah I feel grandma was both you know she was better than grandpa but grandma is ah connection to grandpa so I feel she's kind of creepy
00:22:02.52
Steve Barnes
For grandma, yeah.
00:22:16.79
Steve Barnes
like When we get to that section later on, i got some some feedback for you then.
00:22:21.46
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. I mean, I would have liked, it would have been neat if he came up with the bathtub and he saw Danny, you know, that would have been cool. Like, cause you've mentioned the overlook hotel and that he might be able to see into the future.
00:22:30.69
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:22:34.81
Steve Barnes
Right. Yes.
00:22:35.35
Lindsey Dunn
it would be nice if he, he, and you know, he was given advice by Danny who got to return the favor or something, but no.
00:22:38.33
Steve Barnes
Oh.
00:22:43.18
Steve Barnes
Prophetic.
00:22:43.64
Lindsey Dunn
No, he's going to go reenter his childhood trauma. Okay.
00:22:48.12
Steve Barnes
Why not? That's what it's all about, I guess.
00:22:51.16
Lindsey Dunn
hu Okay. Well, I think from here, since those are our those were our very small Easter eggs, Easter egg hunt was tough this year.
00:23:02.58
Steve Barnes
Was.
00:23:03.00
Lindsey Dunn
um So let's move on to character arcs.
00:23:08.63
Steve Barnes
Sounds good to me. You got them grouped up really nicely this week. Um, cause it seems like there are like some nice compact groups more so than last week.
00:23:11.90
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. Yeah.
00:23:16.46
Lindsey Dunn
huh Right. So the first grouping is going to be Hank, Ingrid, and Stan Kirsch, the butcher.
00:23:24.76
Steve Barnes
Yes. Yes. Yeah. Ingrid Marsh. I'm sorry. Ingrid Kirsch. Sorry. Is confirmed as a real person this week. We actually see her talking to other people besides just Lily. Um, her husband, Stan Kirsch is not as friendly as we once believed. Um,
00:23:44.47
Steve Barnes
Turns out Ingrid was the woman that Hank was involved with. And because of an unexpected bus crash towards the end of our episode, Hank ends up being free back with Ingrid and looking for a cool spot to hide in the future. a spot, a black spot, perhaps.
00:24:11.96
Lindsey Dunn
Okay. Okay. Very clever.
00:24:13.18
Steve Barnes
But yeah, one just I wanted to start with Stan though.
00:24:13.80
Lindsey Dunn
Very clever.
00:24:15.70
Steve Barnes
Like, do you remember when we first met him and he was so cool and nice and he seemed so open-minded to Charlotte, but then he said that the kids call him Stan the Cleaver, which sounds kind of sinister, right?
00:24:28.51
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm. Yes.
00:24:29.27
Steve Barnes
I think we met Stan the Cleaver this episode. We met his alter ego.
00:24:34.26
Lindsey Dunn
Right. Well, we all know that Sometimes you're nicer to people at work than you are your own family. But hopefully the difference isn't quite this.
00:24:42.76
Steve Barnes
A a total Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde situation with this guy.
00:24:51.51
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah, Stan was dan was interesting. He wanted his steak not overcooked.
00:24:58.07
Steve Barnes
hu Bloody.
00:24:59.38
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. But yeah, i he did recognize Lily, though, as he said Terry Bainbridge's kid. So he hasn't he's not totally far gone yet.
00:25:13.96
Lindsey Dunn
He's not totally in the weeds yet.
00:25:14.70
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm.
00:25:15.48
Lindsey Dunn
But, you know, she ye you said she was confirmed to be a real person. But if the only if you're saying if you're saying the proof is she talked to Stan, are we sure Stan is a real person?
00:25:31.16
Steve Barnes
Well, she talked to Charlotte. She talked to Hank. She talked to the guard at the, uh, at the military base.
00:25:34.78
Lindsey Dunn
That's true. Okay. Hmm. so
00:25:38.28
Steve Barnes
She had to give ID there. So yeah, she's actually like a living, breathing human person. Unlike last week when we weren't quite sure. But we're so we're still not sure of her motivation, though. Like, if you talk to my wife, Heather, she would say, yeah, this woman's great. She's given great advice to Lily. She gave her the turtle, you know, bracelet. She told her to stay away from the sewers.
00:26:04.57
Steve Barnes
Um, you know, she's given Lily milk instead of like the gross town water that contains evil particles. So like in Heather's mind, like she's a hundred percent like a saint, like she's sent by Maturin the turtle or something where I kind of think the exact opposite.
00:26:24.21
Steve Barnes
I'm thinking like she's using reverse psychology on Lily by making her promise not to go into the sewers because, you know, kids, you know, want to do the opposite of what adults tell them.
00:26:35.29
Steve Barnes
I think that she tells Lily like the right things. Absolutely. But she never really like out, except for the part where she says, stay away from the sewers. Other than that, she doesn't really ever give her like direct advice.
00:26:49.84
Steve Barnes
She's just a kind person to Lily. This whole Bob gray connection is really telling to me and to Heather. It's not, but to me, i mean, should, should, can I recap the whole Bob gray like story? Cause I don't think we have ever done this. Have we?
00:27:09.88
Lindsey Dunn
no, i don't think so.
00:27:12.60
Steve Barnes
Like Bob Gray was just a regular dude. He was a regular circus performer back in the late 1800s. And his his circus persona, his clown, was Pennywise the Clown, is what he called himself. And he was just a regular dude, um portrayed by Bill Skarsgård in the movie It. But even so, he was just a regular guy who was you know who was a clown in the circus.
00:27:37.66
Steve Barnes
When it viewed Pennywise and how much he enraptured the crowd and how much the kids liked slash feared him because of like his demeanor, like it took over the persona of Pennywise the clown also taking over Bob Gray.
00:27:57.08
Steve Barnes
and making Bob gray kind of like this gray figure, not quite human. And Bob gray had a daughter, Mrs. Mrs. um umm I'm sorry. Ingrid is his daughter, Ingrid gray. and she eventually became Ingrid Kirsch.
00:28:12.22
Steve Barnes
And I'm thinking because of her association with Bob gray and with Pennywise that she is still a Pennywise type figure. And it's,
00:28:23.06
Steve Barnes
telling that the kids go down to the sewer the same time the military does. And it's almost like she could be partly involved in that push in a way. So I do think that she's evil.
00:28:36.02
Steve Barnes
Heather thinks that she's Heather thinks that she's good and that she will become evil and taken over by Pennywise at a later time that we haven't seen that happen yet.
00:28:36.31
Lindsey Dunn
How do you feel?
00:28:46.34
Steve Barnes
Like right now in Heather's mind, she's a normal woman that is about to be taken over by Pennywise in the future.
00:28:53.72
Lindsey Dunn
that's That's where I am too.
00:28:55.38
Steve Barnes
That's where you are too. Okay.
00:28:57.27
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
00:28:57.34
Steve Barnes
Um, I just think the way that they've, um, portrayed her as really mysterious and given us this question, it's deliberate. It's deliberate that we didn't find out until this episode, like who she actually is.
00:29:12.92
Steve Barnes
So I think it's more than a misdirect. Um, and she's the perfect age as well. Like this is just an aside. um, The actress who plays her, Madeline Stowe?
00:29:25.90
Steve Barnes
That's right.
00:29:25.91
Lindsey Dunn
Yes.
00:29:27.33
Steve Barnes
She's 67 years old. Like, that's how old she is. So that's how old Miss Kirsch potentially is as well. If that's the case, then she was born in 1895, which would make her 12 or 13 years old in 1908, the same time that Francis Shaw and Rose are hanging around, and they're 12 13 at that time, too.
00:29:52.92
Steve Barnes
So I'm kind of thinking that just as an aside, that when we get to that season, when we start watching the 1908 stuff that we're going to be seeing like a little kid Ingrid running around too.
00:30:08.18
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah, i mean, you said you kind of said a lot there, Steve. I don't know if I have much more to add. um I feel like it was a lot less unclear because she you know she outright says, don't go. Promise me you're not going to go. And yeah, she could have been misdirectioned, but what's-his-face didn't do that. Maddie didn't do that. Pennywise is Maddie.
00:30:31.77
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm.
00:30:32.02
Lindsey Dunn
Also, do we think Pennywise is
00:30:37.37
Lindsey Dunn
I'm
00:30:40.73
Lindsey Dunn
i trying to think of the word to this, but is able to possess more than one person at the same time.
00:30:52.57
Steve Barnes
Yes. I think we saw that this episode, as a matter of fact, because he has to clock a bunch of different people's fears. The two soldiers feared uncle Sam apparently, and like Lily fears her dad and the kids fear Pennywise.
00:31:07.55
Steve Barnes
So yeah, I do think that he can, he can divide and conquer.
00:31:10.65
Lindsey Dunn
So, and so counterpoint, the soldiers happened.
00:31:14.55
Steve Barnes
Okay.
00:31:17.53
Lindsey Dunn
And then the thing with Lily seeing her dad was after. So I think once in the sewers, and there's a difference between like people have talked about this way with God too, that God's our all powerful, all knowing he can be everywhere at once.
00:31:30.58
Steve Barnes
Okay.
00:31:32.92
Lindsey Dunn
Like Satan's is not that way. He can only be, he doesn't have the same power level as God. And so, I wonder with Pennywise, if he was spending time being Maddie, could he have also been um this other person at the same time?
00:31:50.97
Steve Barnes
Oh, okay. Sure.
00:31:52.63
Lindsey Dunn
um Because he was in Maddie's body a long time, right?
00:31:56.28
Steve Barnes
Right.
00:31:56.60
Lindsey Dunn
um
00:31:57.21
Steve Barnes
Yes.
00:31:57.78
Lindsey Dunn
But it could be more that, it could have been that the evil person in this case was ah was originally Stan Kirsch. And then it looks kind of like in their household, there's borderline abuse going on or possibility of abuse.
00:32:10.94
Steve Barnes
Oh, yeah.
00:32:12.92
Lindsey Dunn
And it could be that he's originally the bad guy, but then Ingrid gets possessed later, um, or killed. And so then Pennywise is free to enter her body as a vessel like he can.
00:32:26.68
Lindsey Dunn
So I did, I just felt like it was more evidence that she was on the side of right.
00:32:26.96
Steve Barnes
Hmm.
00:32:30.86
Steve Barnes
That's good point.
00:32:33.40
Lindsey Dunn
um The only thing that makes me give pause to that then is that I was wondering if you were slightly suspicious of the fact that the bus that was carrying Hank Grogan just happened to be in a car wreck and now he's on the loose.
00:32:35.51
Steve Barnes
yeah
00:32:49.05
Steve Barnes
Right.
00:32:53.02
Steve Barnes
oh it was... Yeah, it didn't just happen because Hank himself said that it was it was really weird and creepy the way that it happened. He said it was it was unusual. So Hank tells us himself that it it was not just a normal car crash.
00:33:07.83
Steve Barnes
Absolutely, it was involved in that.
00:33:07.96
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah, what it what did what what else did he say? He said it was just creepy and weird. I mean.
00:33:16.63
Steve Barnes
He said, I don't remember his exact words, but you know, she said what happened.
00:33:18.74
Lindsey Dunn
Okay.
00:33:21.47
Steve Barnes
And he said, i don't know. i can't explain it. It was crazy. Um, and I definitely got the vibe that it wasn't just a car crash. Um, just based on his words, which I cannot remember his exact words right now.
00:33:35.10
Lindsey Dunn
Right. So it makes me think, that I guess then that sort of feels like, oh, well, who would be responsible for that crash happening?
00:33:45.22
Steve Barnes
I,
00:33:45.45
Lindsey Dunn
Okay.
00:33:46.01
Steve Barnes
I do think it's a divide and conquer thing. I think it has a lot of powers, but it is okay. Here's I'm going to play devil's advocate with myself now. Um, because like you said, it does have boundaries. It cannot cross. It has like these pillars that it's trapped within. So it does have limitations. It's not God-like.
00:34:08.41
Steve Barnes
Um, and saying that, that kind of, um, freeze Mrs. Kirsch from actually being evil because she, she's not bound by the pillars.
00:34:21.75
Steve Barnes
She goes to the military base and she's fine. Like, so I think, I think I just realized this as you were talking before.
00:34:25.25
Lindsey Dunn
Hmm.
00:34:31.29
Steve Barnes
So, um, you know, I mean, I could be wrong about that. maybe it falls more to like, she's going to turn evil later. I do think her husband though, Stan, I think he's just your basic Derry guy.
00:34:44.73
Steve Barnes
That's been drinking too much water and he's just, you know, just a, not a nice dude in his own house. And he has a fake face that he has when he's at the butcher shop.
00:34:57.40
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah, the only other thing I have for this group is that the person that attacked Hank was Mr.
00:35:02.55
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm.
00:35:03.04
Lindsey Dunn
mount Malkin, Phil and Susie's dad.
00:35:06.10
Steve Barnes
Yeah, I was going to make mention of that too. That was my my only last point too.
00:35:12.63
Steve Barnes
Because yeah, the the only reason we know that is because he says my kids and he was the only parent that had multiple kids that were attacked.
00:35:17.40
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
00:35:21.72
Steve Barnes
That's how I knew it was him.
00:35:23.93
Lindsey Dunn
It did seem a little... you know There was that scene where um Mr. Bowers brings him onto the bus and they're all just sitting there talking. and you know it's not a nice It's not a nice dialogue.
00:35:39.16
Lindsey Dunn
And then he's getting loaded on the bus and for whatever reason, Chief Bowers decides he needs to shove Hank.
00:35:46.23
Steve Barnes
Yeah, i saw that too. Like, it's not Hank's fault he got attacked just now. What the hell?
00:35:54.74
Lindsey Dunn
i get I mean, I guess you could read it that he was like, hurry up and get on the bus. But it looked like he was just like, okay, this guy is in chains.
00:35:59.45
Steve Barnes
Sure, sure.
00:36:02.34
Lindsey Dunn
Let's just give him one more shove just because I enjoy it. And that hasn't been his MO up to this point is just being malicious. You know, he's just more, yeah.
00:36:12.44
Steve Barnes
No, you're right. I think it's telling. I think i think that is something that I'm glad you brought it up because I know that the, um I mean, we all know that the black spot gets attacked later on by a bunch of like dudes and robes, but we don't know who's under those robes. um and Wouldn't it be crazy if it was a town sheriff, Mr. Clint Bowers? I mean, I mean, it's showing like his anger towards Hank, like right here. um I think you're onto something.
00:36:43.69
Lindsey Dunn
Well, that actually ties into our next kind of block because we're going to be talking about Rose, Tanniel, and General Shaw next.
00:36:51.93
Steve Barnes
Okay.
00:36:52.15
Lindsey Dunn
And the first note I had for this group is about this augury that's mentioned. um that there's They have this name for it that there's...
00:36:58.42
Steve Barnes
Right. Yeah.
00:37:02.81
Lindsey Dunn
that that the... um the entity sheds and that it goes into the water and that as time goes on, they said that the, there was more aggression happening and they have a name for the augury is one last bloody event before the cycle ends, which we know is going to be our black spot.
00:37:16.49
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm.
00:37:24.21
Steve Barnes
Right.
00:37:26.87
Lindsey Dunn
But I didn't know that there was a name for that, the augury. So people are getting more aggressive, including
00:37:33.66
Steve Barnes
okay
00:37:34.71
Lindsey Dunn
Chief Bowers, apparently.
00:37:36.57
Steve Barnes
Yeah. And you weren't the only one. This is this is the first time that that phrase has has reared its head in the King universe. So this is like a first for everybody. um So yeah, I definitely had my pencil and paper out when they were talking about that because that's like new information for us.
00:37:54.04
Steve Barnes
And that woman was talking about, you know, the 27 years of peace once the augury happens. And I think that's what that whole group is looking forward to.
00:38:04.51
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm. let's see. What else? I'll i'll say some stuff about Rose, and then I'll all let you go from there. But Rose obviously, she finds out during this meeting, this town meeting, that they are holding Tanyl.
00:38:28.15
Lindsey Dunn
So she... uses all of the muster that is that you would have as an aunt who's protective of her nephew, and comes in and confronts General Shaw.
00:38:40.47
Lindsey Dunn
And, um you know, is telling him that you will not be able to control this thing. And I thought that was a nice scene between the two of them.
00:38:52.66
Lindsey Dunn
And I thought it was also funny that she says you won't be able to control it And he says, we'll see. We'll see is his response.
00:39:04.75
Lindsey Dunn
We'll just see about that.
00:39:06.58
Steve Barnes
Yeah, we will see, won't we? We'll ah report back later, General Shaw.
00:39:08.88
Lindsey Dunn
Seemed very. And she has this, um she goes into her secret closet and her safe inside of her secret closet and pulls out a weapon that can hurt it.
00:39:24.79
Lindsey Dunn
And yeah.
00:39:24.89
Steve Barnes
Yeah, the shard dagger, that's right.
00:39:26.86
Lindsey Dunn
The shard dagger, the one we saw from this, from the flashback. And so I guess a question I want to ask, and then um maybe you can take it from there is what was their plan here?
00:39:41.50
Lindsey Dunn
Was, i think that's a good question to ask. Yeah. What was the plan that she gave him this shard and what was she hoping would happen?
00:39:54.20
Steve Barnes
I mean, we know that that shard is protection. It's like when that one young lady in the original um Losers Club went out to seek it, they took they took that dagger with them.
00:40:08.06
Steve Barnes
um Unfortunately for that individual, the dagger wasn't enough, but I guess Rose figures, hey, Daniel's getting ready to go to like one of the most dangerous places possible, so I'm going give him this weapon here.
00:40:23.38
Steve Barnes
that we know that the mission that general Shaw's mission is to find these pillars, AKA shards, and I guess relocate them and make a tighter, a tighter cage for it because like it right now has a free reign over the whole town.
00:40:42.62
Steve Barnes
They want to shrink that area up. So Tanyul apparently knows the path to go to these shards.
00:40:54.01
Steve Barnes
through the house on knee bolt street, but we never, we never see any shards. We never see any paths. There's not 13 tunnels leading different places.
00:41:08.95
Steve Barnes
So yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm intrigued. I'm, I'm like scratching my head and not quite sure what to make of this either.
00:41:17.38
Lindsey Dunn
Right. To add to this mystery, um when she goes to see Daniel, they have a dialogue in two different languages.
00:41:29.62
Lindsey Dunn
You know, they start out speaking English and then they they go into the language of the Shokopiwa tribe.
00:41:30.01
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:41:39.26
Lindsey Dunn
or um and they you know He says something to the extent of he tells her that you know he was he was forced to tell them everything.
00:41:52.95
Lindsey Dunn
um But then he mentions, but don't worry, they think. And then she interrupts him and says, i know. So we don't get to hear what he was telling her.
00:42:08.31
Lindsey Dunn
and they were communicating without speaking. So not quite shining level, but they were both tracking with each other. And the I guess the question is what were, what was he going to say?
00:42:23.38
Lindsey Dunn
And i guess where my mind is with it is that he told them most of the stuff or of a partial truth, but didn't tell them the full truth.
00:42:36.25
Lindsey Dunn
Um,
00:42:36.63
Steve Barnes
Right.
00:42:36.92
Lindsey Dunn
You know, he told her that, he told them that if you go under Nybolt Street, you will find the path to the 13 shards. And, but also you noticed in the dream, or not the dream, the memory, the aunt um says, you are now part of the, and then she stops and her eyeball droops.
00:43:03.86
Lindsey Dunn
So I feel like in that moment, and this is just speculation, but I feel that Daniel somehow, as as much as he was forced to release, he stopped before they revealed the final piece of information.
00:43:08.66
Steve Barnes
Yeah. Yes.
00:43:22.01
Steve Barnes
yes
00:43:22.81
Lindsey Dunn
And he managed to shut that down and probably at great cost to himself to do that. um But this plan was doomed from the start.
00:43:34.06
Lindsey Dunn
they're this The sewers aren't a path to the shards. It's just a path to Pennywise and where he lives and dominates.
00:43:45.02
Lindsey Dunn
And Tanyol knew that he was walking into a trap and all of those, but he knew he wouldn't be able to dissuade them. So he Rose gave him the only thing she could, which is was a weapon to protect himself.
00:43:58.49
Steve Barnes
Yeah, I'm on board with all that too, except ah except I think Daniel's telling a half truth. I think the house on Neibolt Street and the sewers do lead to the shards, but there's ah there's an additional step that he didn't tell them about, that there's more to the story that they're that they're unaware of. They thought they would just follow 13 tunnels until they got to the grating That, that bars and then the shards would be right there, like magical objects they could just grab like in a video game. And it's not quite like that. I think Daniel didn't tell them everything, even though when he said those words, like they think, and then Rose shut them up real quick.
00:44:40.97
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:44:42.94
Steve Barnes
That's not where my mind went. That's, that's where it's going now. After our discussion here, that's exactly what I'm thinking now. They think they know the way, but they don't. But at the time I was thinking, they think it sleeps during the daytime, or they think they can move the pillars, or they think they can control it See, I was thinking he was going to finish it with one of those three statements, which are very, you know, very obvious statements, I think, that he could make because they're statements that we all know.
00:45:17.05
Steve Barnes
But yeah, I think there's I think there's more to the tale and whether or not we got it right, we're on the right path.
00:45:17.29
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
00:45:24.89
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm.
00:45:26.87
Steve Barnes
And yeah, it doesn't sleep during the day. Like that's like a mystery. That's a misdirect that Maddie gave the kids.
00:45:32.50
Lindsey Dunn
yeah
00:45:33.92
Steve Barnes
And we know it's not true because the whole grocery store thing happened during the daytime as well.
00:45:43.06
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah, we also find out about General Shaw was kind of lying when he told Rose he didn't remember everything. he says five years ago he was given a drug as part of a military program and he remembered everything about that summer.
00:45:50.43
Steve Barnes
Yes. Yes.
00:45:58.36
Lindsey Dunn
and But then she tells him, i don't think you really do remember everything.
00:45:59.64
Steve Barnes
Yeah. that
00:46:02.84
Lindsey Dunn
Otherwise, you would never have come up with this plan.
00:46:09.30
Steve Barnes
and Maybe both are true. I think it's really neat that he was tied in with the LSD trials that happened like in the late fifties. That's super cool that drugs come into play yet again, because the native Americans use drugs to like see their visions.
00:46:19.74
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. Yeah.
00:46:24.63
Steve Barnes
And he took LSD and remember Derry. And the kids are taking value on this episode. um it makes me wonder why he didn't think about drugging his team with slight doses of LSD or something like that before they went into the sewers.
00:46:43.51
Steve Barnes
Seriously. Uh-huh.
00:46:44.40
Lindsey Dunn
It kind of makes you think the kids had the good ah you know the better plan.
00:46:48.34
Steve Barnes
Yeah, that's right.
00:46:49.88
Lindsey Dunn
Maybe not taking three of those. I don't know how, you know, maybe if they had taken one or one and a half.
00:46:55.64
Steve Barnes
Right. her
00:46:59.38
Lindsey Dunn
The idea was supposed to be to stay calm, not um not be emotionally numb. Yeah.
00:47:07.29
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
00:47:10.68
Lindsey Dunn
But yeah, it was a nice scene between that. I general Shaw is, he is not my friend right now. He's really, you know, he comes in the room and he, you know, Dick Halloran says we got him and he just looks so satisfied that he's, that he's used Dick Halloran this way to break into Daniel's mind.
00:47:17.50
Steve Barnes
Oh no.
00:47:32.33
Lindsey Dunn
And he isn't apologetic at all about Rose, but boy, he does. He definitely, when she comes in the door, he stands straight up and straightens his tie and he's on his best behavior and he'll be let go when we're done with our operation, I promise.
00:47:47.96
Lindsey Dunn
You know, it was just, I'm not liking him right now.
00:47:53.53
Steve Barnes
especially the way that he ends up, like as we go through this episode, he was not there and the, in the sewers because when, um, when Daniel takes his opportunity to start running and he runs off and he drops the shard, um, from his bag, which Lily finds later, um, that other dude that i think his name is puller,
00:48:00.95
Lindsey Dunn
Right.
00:48:16.90
Lindsey Dunn
spoiler
00:48:18.08
Steve Barnes
Fuller. Yeah. I thought that was Shaw at first, like just starts opening, and firing and shooting at Daniel like 10 times. That, that, that was one of my WTF moments right there. I was like, why are you shooting after this kid? He's supposed to be your guide. And that's not the way you make them stop. And I'm, I don't know that that really threw me through a loop, but it was not Shaw.
00:48:41.27
Steve Barnes
like So that was not Shaw. Shaw was not part of the mission. However, after the whole mission wrapped up, It was a shit mission. Okay. Let's just say this. They, they lost Halloran.
00:48:50.38
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm.
00:48:52.78
Steve Barnes
They lost Tanyal. They lost two unnamed random soldiers. Russo is dead. The ancient weapon is lost. And if you talk to Hanlon, there was a bunch of kids down there too. This mission was awful. And to wrap it all up, what does he say about this mission and about Rose and them? He says that they, being the native Americans, They'll answer for what they let us into.
00:49:18.36
Steve Barnes
So he blames them for this whole fiasco, which is completely out of line. He's, he is off his rocker and I have another wild suspicion about him.
00:49:26.17
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
00:49:28.57
Steve Barnes
You ready for this one?
00:49:29.82
Lindsey Dunn
Okay.
00:49:31.26
Steve Barnes
You remember when he was sitting in his office this episode and he was watching, um, the protests and And he had this look on his face. He was watching like the, a civil rights march. And they were talking about like, you know, how, know, there's bloodshed in the streets.
00:49:48.47
Steve Barnes
And he was watching this scene, like with like a look on his face, like he was loving it. And I was like, is he feeding off of the fear of this crowd on this television? Is he really like being, perhaps he's being led by it in a way.
00:50:05.98
Steve Barnes
And maybe there's a glimpse of it inside him I mean, it's off the charts crazy just based on one small scene, but like that scene was there in the show to be noticed.
00:50:17.59
Steve Barnes
So I thought it was a very suspicious scene for Shaw.
00:50:19.70
Lindsey Dunn
Was that this episode or?
00:50:21.14
Steve Barnes
Yes. It was right before Rose walked in.
00:50:22.46
Lindsey Dunn
Okay.
00:50:25.21
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. I don't know. i don't know if I saw that, I guess in my back of my mind, I have hope for this guy, i guess. I think if he just, listen I think if he just listens to his woman, he'll be fine.
00:50:33.57
Steve Barnes
Well, sure.
00:50:37.59
Lindsey Dunn
But yeah, I do kind of wonder if, you know, I'm hoping Daniel made it out and what he means by that.
00:50:38.78
Steve Barnes
yeah
00:50:45.14
Steve Barnes
Oh yeah.
00:50:45.92
Lindsey Dunn
And if he's going to go get revenge or, you know, if he's blaming them for how it went, then, um you know, he's not going to like the fact that they set up this misdirection.
00:50:50.62
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
00:51:01.43
Steve Barnes
Right.
00:51:02.04
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
00:51:02.84
Steve Barnes
Yeah. Daniel de Daniel definitely got out of there. We didn't see him get out of there, but I mean,
00:51:07.13
Lindsey Dunn
I was worried when he lost his weapon.
00:51:09.21
Steve Barnes
Yeah. But I mean, we never saw him again and then he knows his ways around the tunnel. So I'm like 99% sure he's fine. And besides he's like credited in IMDB and being in all eight episodes.
00:51:19.86
Lindsey Dunn
Okay.
00:51:24.14
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
00:51:25.54
Lindsey Dunn
Oh my gosh, we're back to IMDb giving us our guidance. but ah We're doomed. Okay. Um...
00:51:35.93
Lindsey Dunn
Anything else about this crew?
00:51:39.29
Steve Barnes
Let me scroll through my notes one last time. Suspicious Shaw, shit mission, they'll answer what they did for. i think we've i think we've covered it i'll covered it all.
00:51:50.33
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. ah I was like, okay, well, it was anything else said in this interesting, this meeting? They mentioned their new keeper. but they were They were training their new keeper.
00:51:58.52
Steve Barnes
Oh, yeah.
00:52:00.71
Lindsey Dunn
So I'm guessing that Rose is the current keeper.
00:52:05.24
Steve Barnes
Absolutely.
00:52:05.50
Lindsey Dunn
And they're training someone to follow in her footsteps. And it's just...
00:52:09.98
Steve Barnes
Yeah. Who? Not Dan, not Daniel. He wasn't there.
00:52:13.02
Lindsey Dunn
It was the young lady that they were... That answered.
00:52:16.41
Steve Barnes
Okay.
00:52:16.47
Lindsey Dunn
they I don't remember her what her name was.
00:52:17.18
Steve Barnes
Okay.
00:52:18.27
Lindsey Dunn
But it does seem like the keeper is a female. um Maybe that's always a a storyteller. Yeah.
00:52:26.23
Steve Barnes
I mean, all four that we know of have, you know, have been female, so safe to assume.
00:52:32.09
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. um So yeah, they talk about the shedding, that there's big event of violence.
00:52:39.67
Steve Barnes
Oh yeah. And I give myself some credit because we were talking early on this podcast series about, um because you know, my work in water and wastewater, and I was saying like how some big evil meteorite that hits the ground will definitely have ramifications for future generations and that ground could be tainted. And that sounds like if that's exactly what these, um this council is saying. So they were like, Steve Barnes, congratulations.
00:53:05.78
Steve Barnes
And I say, thank you.
00:53:08.34
Lindsey Dunn
I don't like to think about people shedding their skin into the water. That's kind of gross anyway.
00:53:14.36
Steve Barnes
I mean, that we're talking about blood and brains too. I mean, I'll take the shedding skin over the blood and the brains any day. right Okay.
00:53:23.86
Lindsey Dunn
All right, let's move on to Halloran, Grandma and Grandpa. Okay.
00:53:30.09
Steve Barnes
Oh yeah. This is, we're back to that moment now, or I wanted to talk earlier about, about them. So yeah, Dick has like this underwater vision of his grandma and grandpa back in, back in their old bathroom. And grandpa is trying to trick young Dick Halloran and to open up his box of fears.
00:53:50.84
Steve Barnes
Um, and later on this episode, when we see a dead Polly Russo walking around, we know that indeed that box has been opened for sure. um so yeah, Dick Halloran's box of fears has been forced open by and And this is what I wanted to say earlier about, you were saying that his grandma looked kind of creepy too.
00:54:13.78
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm.
00:54:13.88
Steve Barnes
i don't necessarily disagree with you, except for that she and Dick were sharing like a telepathic conversation.
00:54:21.60
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm.
00:54:22.55
Steve Barnes
And all of her words were to help Dick and to guide Dick on the side of good. And then her grant, the grandfather of course is, you know, sadistic and evil.
00:54:33.98
Steve Barnes
And he even shoots the woman to like, know, make Dick listen. He doesn't shoot Dick. He shoots the grandmother knowing that Dick will respond to that.
00:54:41.49
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm.
00:54:44.54
Lindsey Dunn
Right.
00:54:45.34
Steve Barnes
I got strong, very strong, mature in the turtle and it vibes from the grandmother and the grandfather because it has found Dick Halloran and recognizes that Dick Halloran has very special gifts similar to it.
00:55:04.63
Steve Barnes
So it wants to infiltrate it. But then there's another figure there that's trying to kind of inadvertently and indirectly stop it from happening, not strong arming their way to stop it from happening, but just indirectly guiding um the other person into another direction, which falls right into the God and Satan you know allegory you made earlier.
00:55:31.38
Lindsey Dunn
Well, almost, I guess realized grandma was for him was his force of good growing up.
00:55:39.42
Steve Barnes
Yes, that's right.
00:55:40.66
Lindsey Dunn
But I think what I was kind of saying is in these visions, when he's having these visions now, is the grandma still a tool of good or is it just another tool of Pennywise to I mean, I'd like to think, and and we've said this, I've said this before, I'd like to think that Maturin is also sending, you know, agents of good and help help and encouragement along the way.
00:55:56.67
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm.
00:56:08.38
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
00:56:11.00
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
00:56:11.29
Lindsey Dunn
But it's just that when grandma's approaching Dick Halloran in the woods and saying, mind me, son, keep the lid on tight.
00:56:16.09
Steve Barnes
Right. Yes.
00:56:19.50
Lindsey Dunn
It's not exactly, it's not exactly what you'd want to hear. Maybe you'd want to hear something like, I'm always with you or I'll be next to you. I'm always with you.
00:56:30.06
Lindsey Dunn
You know, something like that instead of instead of being in a tunnel and going dick, you know, it's like, that was, that was what grandma's approach was to like, you know, giving him.
00:56:38.36
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
00:56:43.38
Steve Barnes
You're not wrong. I think, I think we've seen two images of the grandmother when he saw the grandmother in that first image, when he was in the plane, that was clearly an image that it took over and tried to get Dick to jump out of the plane.
00:56:57.02
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
00:56:58.71
Steve Barnes
So that was a manifestation of it. Then when we saw the woods, I would think that that was also a manifestation of it, except for the advice that she gave him, which is keep the lid on tight.
00:57:11.70
Steve Barnes
Like don't give up that box. So I think that that was a manifestation of Maturin. And then when we see this last one here, And it's, you know, definitely maternity and it like side by side, almost like a, what do you call it? That, that one person that they, that God and the devil made a bet who, that, that one person would um deny God.
00:57:39.77
Steve Barnes
what was the Canaan? It was, it was a Canaan. I don't know.
00:57:42.46
Lindsey Dunn
No, it's, um I'm sorry.
00:57:42.49
Steve Barnes
I'm talking on my butt now.
00:57:44.46
Lindsey Dunn
It's, it's, um I know, I know what you're saying now, but it's, the really famous book about suffering.
00:57:51.90
Steve Barnes
Yes.
00:57:52.92
Lindsey Dunn
This is hair horrible.
00:57:53.11
Steve Barnes
And, but that's, that's kind of like what I'm seeing is like, like Dick Halloran is that biblical figure. And then like the mother represents God and the grandfather represents Satan.
00:58:08.06
Steve Barnes
Job, Job is it was.
00:58:09.21
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah, that's right, Job. Well, yeah, I mean, i would I would agree with that, but I i guess that in this in this vision though, if grandma's there supporting him, then you would think he would actually have the tools to fight it.
00:58:25.94
Lindsey Dunn
But I don't think he did because he wasn't wanting to open the box, but grandpa was able to make him anyway. Um, by just, it was it was almost like Dick had no say in the matter whatsoever.
00:58:39.16
Lindsey Dunn
And I don't think it's from lack of, um, from lack of strength. So yeah, I don't know.
00:58:44.71
Steve Barnes
Oh,
00:58:45.14
Lindsey Dunn
It was, it was, a painful image because he's remembering his past and being chained to the bathtub.
00:58:51.10
Steve Barnes
oh yeah. Yeah.
00:58:52.22
Lindsey Dunn
I mean, it's so, so I don't, I don't know. I'm not, I'm not not sure I'm exactly agreeing with what you're saying, but it's, it's a good, it's a good thought that hopefully grandmother is going to be able to help him in some way.
00:59:08.02
Lindsey Dunn
um
00:59:08.06
Steve Barnes
yeah
00:59:09.11
Lindsey Dunn
be
00:59:09.71
Steve Barnes
That's just what I got out of it. But I also see that now this will lead, this is going to change Dick Halloran now because now he can see ghosts.
00:59:18.39
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
00:59:21.14
Steve Barnes
Now he can communicate with ghosts.
00:59:21.34
Lindsey Dunn
yeah
00:59:23.10
Steve Barnes
Will this be helpful in the future? It seems like it could potentially be a power.
00:59:26.30
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
00:59:29.62
Steve Barnes
I because Pennywise and Dick basic basically have very similar powers and abilities. It's just at a different scale a different ability level, but very similar.
00:59:39.06
Lindsey Dunn
yeah Yeah. Well, that gets at another question I want to ask, which is actually more about the grandpa than, than, than it.
00:59:46.36
Steve Barnes
Okay.
00:59:46.49
Lindsey Dunn
But when Grandpa says that gift, this gift isn't meant to be put in a box.
00:59:52.49
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm.
00:59:52.82
Lindsey Dunn
And so how does, whether it is a memory of his real Grandpa or if this is it entering into this moment, what so how does Grandpa think he can use um Dick's gift of seeing dead people?
01:00:16.63
Steve Barnes
I don't know. um Maybe ah you could you go on one side and and it'll make Dick appear crazy and take him off the playing board, put him in Juniper Hill or put him in jail.
01:00:29.82
Steve Barnes
Or maybe um it you know, it has a very, very high opinion of itself. So maybe it thinks that if he, if he can, you know,
01:00:41.05
Steve Barnes
get Dick back to use this ability, maybe he can team up with Dick and maybe Dick would be a perfect form that it could take to like do better killings in the future, perhaps.
01:00:53.72
Lindsey Dunn
Or maybe he just wanted to torment him by opening the box he wanted to keep closed with the the things that scared him. So it could be something as easy, as basic as that, but...
01:01:03.22
Steve Barnes
Yeah. It is fascinated by Dick Halloran, fascinated by it, because he's never met anybody like Dick Halloran before.
01:01:05.66
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
01:01:11.48
Steve Barnes
So, you know, there's a fascination there. There's a mutual respect there.
01:01:16.31
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm. Man, he needs to meet Danny then. Eventually...
01:01:21.98
Steve Barnes
Oh yeah. What about, what about this box, this shiny gold box? Is this the same box from Pulp Fiction?
01:01:31.36
Lindsey Dunn
I don't think so, but it might be the same box from Seven. What's in the box?
01:01:36.22
Steve Barnes
Oh, no. It's got Gwyneth Paltrow's head in it. I want Marsalis's soul. That's what I want in the box.
01:01:44.23
Lindsey Dunn
There's so many boxes out there. So many boxes. Yeah.
01:01:48.09
Steve Barnes
And yet another one now thinks, yeah.
01:01:49.47
Lindsey Dunn
Pandora's box, too. Yeah.
01:01:53.33
Lindsey Dunn
Okay, let's move into our kid team. this a big This is a big team here. We got Ronnie, Will, Rich, Marge, Lily, and Maddie.
01:02:05.24
Steve Barnes
Yeah, dude. Maddie's back in the crew again. Reunion time. so yeah, we're calling this the 1962 losers club. They're gaining a new member with Marge and they think they're reunited with an old member, Maddie.
01:02:21.69
Steve Barnes
Um, they're led down to the sewers where Maddie eventually reveals himself to be Pennywise the clown, And we know that every time we see Maddie here, he's actually Pennywise it in disguise.
01:02:35.86
Steve Barnes
So how long do you think he had to sit there and listen to rich talk about paper airplanes? You think it enjoyed that? but
01:02:47.39
Lindsey Dunn
He didn't really say anything back about that, did he? he was just kind of sitting there.
01:02:51.67
Steve Barnes
He's like, this pure torture. I thought I could torture kids. This is awful. Yeah.
01:02:57.98
Lindsey Dunn
maybe he'll Maybe he'll get some tips from Rich
01:03:04.14
Lindsey Dunn
about to torture people in the future.
01:03:06.94
Steve Barnes
But this, yeah, this is ah we've already discussed this scene at right the tip top, but this was, I mean, lovely that, that Maddie is, is here in their, in their standpipe.
01:03:07.26
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
01:03:17.81
Steve Barnes
It's almost like we have a seven gang losers club. Almost. We got six kids. Well, five kids really, because Maddie doesn't count, but you know, this big, huge gang of kids on bikes showing up to the sewer brings back vibes. get you get chills looking at it.
01:03:33.40
Steve Barnes
Um,
01:03:36.15
Steve Barnes
Yeah, this whole thing, like everybody was high-fiving about Phil being alive because the showrunners very slyly, you know, made Phil look alive on the cereal boxes. They never showed Phil really being dead. So we definitely believe this. We as the audience and we, the kids in the show, um believe this. And that that that's the big impetus. It's not just to rescue Hank anymore. Now we got a live kid we can rescue.
01:04:05.21
Steve Barnes
So, you know, that's the whole, and Lily, once again, comes with a plan, comes with the tools in hand. i think we need to let somebody else have the good idea next season or next episode, right? Let's let Lily sit a back seat.
01:04:19.90
Lindsey Dunn
Well, Steve, not only did she come with a plan, but she came with a hallmark slogan.
01:04:23.19
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
01:04:27.26
Steve Barnes
What was that?
01:04:29.62
Lindsey Dunn
Are you an anchor or a lifeboat?
01:04:32.02
Steve Barnes
ah I kind of like this. i like this a lot, Lindsey.
01:04:35.02
Lindsey Dunn
I liked it, but I feel like she's she's taking a tip from her friend Ingrid, who's always giving her, you know, Forrest Gump types of slogans, like,
01:04:36.95
Steve Barnes
ah
01:04:41.82
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
01:04:45.39
Lindsey Dunn
It's about the friends you made along the way. you know So it just it just kind of it kind of struck me as pretty cheesy. And you know they're they're they've been building up this concept of Lily being the leader and the one that has the plans.
01:05:03.70
Lindsey Dunn
But I wonder, yeah, I wonder if they're going to be kind of at this point, ah let's have somebody else try leading for for a change because Lily's had these ideas and they haven't really panned out so well so far.
01:05:14.52
Steve Barnes
everything
01:05:20.31
Steve Barnes
Hey, Will, can you give us an idea maybe this week, please? let's
01:05:25.53
Lindsey Dunn
He will research it thoroughly.
01:05:27.93
Steve Barnes
yes And it won't involve drugs. I can tell you that. Even though I had a lot of fun with that drug scene, that was a lot of fun. But the anchors in life, but I'm surprised to hear you say that because i really, i I really liked that whole concept.
01:05:35.70
Lindsey Dunn
yes
01:05:42.77
Steve Barnes
I really like dug into it. i mean, maybe I'm a more corny person than I give myself credit for, but I mean,
01:05:50.42
Lindsey Dunn
If you're going to give a St. Crispin speech, day speech, you need to come up with something different than that.
01:05:56.57
Steve Barnes
I guess you're right.
01:05:56.60
Lindsey Dunn
Something better.
01:05:57.37
Steve Barnes
It's, it's a new concept to me. And it's, it's a concept that honestly I've, I've been thinking a lot about not in these terms, the, this phrasing in these terms are new to me, the anchors and lifeboats thing, but I had been like kind of wrestling, like with, you know, remembering past loved ones.
01:06:17.59
Steve Barnes
Um, remembering bad images from them and remembering good memories from them and like the battle to have those um different thoughts about people. And, you know, thinking about friends that you've had through your lifetime and you think about this phrase anchors are lifeboats. And I can definitely think of some anchors in my life and I can definitely think of some lifeboats in my life.
01:06:40.92
Steve Barnes
So, you know, corny old Steve over here really liked it.
01:06:41.53
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. Okay. Well, okay. Counterpoint Steve, I am going to be devil's advocate advocate there.
01:06:46.52
Steve Barnes
Yes. Please.
01:06:49.55
Lindsey Dunn
I don't think these are the two phrases you want to put it against each other because anchors are not bad things. You need an anchor.
01:06:55.99
Steve Barnes
Right.
01:06:56.43
Lindsey Dunn
These anchors are positive things. So you need to, you just need a different, um, you know, an app lifeboat or, a rock tied to a rock tied to your, you know, your ankle.
01:07:11.09
Lindsey Dunn
It's, you know, you talk about being weighed down with a bag, bag of rocks or something like that. Anchors are good things. We need anchors on our boats to keep us safe and um people.
01:07:21.91
Steve Barnes
If we want to get anywhere though, if we want to move around, the anchors aren't really that helpful.
01:07:22.62
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
01:07:28.12
Lindsey Dunn
Oh boy. Okay. Well, I just thought it was a little a little heavy-handed of an analogy to be using here.
01:07:35.76
Steve Barnes
Sure.
01:07:37.05
Lindsey Dunn
And I know she needed to move she needed to move the kids, but it wasn't it wasn't a good move. It wasn't, um you know, and the one the one that we can see now that set up this whole thing was Maddie because he's the one that says that Phil's still down there.
01:07:50.71
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm.
01:07:54.38
Lindsey Dunn
So that's, um now we have to set up this rescue mission.
01:07:55.00
Steve Barnes
who
01:07:59.48
Lindsey Dunn
So it was actually, pretty manufactured by him, this idea in the first place.
01:08:05.78
Steve Barnes
It was, and you know, the, uh, the volume thing, like you said, three volume way too much. Like her mom pops them like M and M's. Sure. Your mom is a full grown adult.
01:08:18.62
Steve Barnes
who probably weighs like, you know, 160 pounds and you're like Lily, you're 12, you weigh 80 pounds. So like you, you don't want to do this Lily, but they don't know. and it makes for a very fun scene. i really enjoy it a lot. I enjoy the fact that they got really high, but there's no payoff with it whatsoever.
01:08:40.73
Steve Barnes
Like it, it never comes back around as helpful whatsoever.
01:08:45.21
Lindsey Dunn
Right. Well, the payoff is you get to see you get to see Rich and Marge holding hands in the sewers and having Lily turn around and say,
01:08:56.70
Lindsey Dunn
Are you two holding hands? And Marge says no. And Rich goes yes.
01:09:05.30
Steve Barnes
I mean, if that's the point, then it was totally worth it.
01:09:06.62
Lindsey Dunn
That is the payoff.
01:09:07.30
Steve Barnes
It was worth it.
01:09:07.70
Lindsey Dunn
That is the payoff.
01:09:08.14
Steve Barnes
It was worth it.
01:09:08.86
Lindsey Dunn
i
01:09:09.24
Steve Barnes
Okay.
01:09:09.82
Lindsey Dunn
i Rich continues to be um the the comic relief that I need. he's i love when he's when he says everybody says that.
01:09:20.63
Lindsey Dunn
My school, the post office, my barber.
01:09:23.01
Steve Barnes
My barber.
01:09:24.70
Lindsey Dunn
And then when he when when he hears when he hears Maddie making a noise before he reveals himself, you know, Will picks up a baseball bat, Rich picks up a bowling pin, and says, this is a private club!
01:09:42.65
Lindsey Dunn
and it's just hilarious.
01:09:44.34
Steve Barnes
He's a great guy. i love this all. And yeah, them holding hands, love it.
01:09:46.63
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
01:09:49.66
Steve Barnes
The way they're slurring their speech, 100%. I'm really on board with this whole thing.
01:09:55.14
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
01:09:55.98
Steve Barnes
And it did give us like insight to Maddie. We noticed that he wasn't stoned. So, you know, that, that was our big clue to us. um The gang didn't have this glowing dagger. We didn't mention the dagger that Tanyal had. He dropped it in the water.
01:10:11.74
Steve Barnes
and Lily retrieves it unknowingly later on. But this thing glows just like that sword in a Lord of the Rings whenever the orcs come near. Like, um, his sword glows blue, so this this shard kind of does the same thing. So I'm picking up Lord of the Rings vibes.
01:10:30.30
Steve Barnes
Back at the sewers again, like when the military went into the sewers, you mentioned the well as one of your Easter eggs, and I thought it reminded me of, um...
01:10:41.18
Steve Barnes
ah
01:10:43.96
Steve Barnes
Jodie Foster film, Silence of the Lambs. That's where my mind went there.
01:10:46.42
Lindsey Dunn
Oh, yeah.
01:10:47.72
Steve Barnes
And then when they got down there and started moving around, I was like, oh, it's a barbarian now. This is like this Neibolt house is barbarian meets Silence of the Lambs.
01:10:57.62
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. Yeah.
01:10:57.91
Steve Barnes
But yeah, down there holding hands. um And eventually we we got to talk about how Maddie lures them down there. And they find the dead bodies and they're horrified and they're yelling. And Maddie starts doing a pole dance. He starts spinning around on the pole, turns into our man. Pennywise, Lindsey, Pennywise finally made his appearance this episode. Did you love it?
01:11:29.67
Lindsey Dunn
I liked the part where he was dancing around the pole and singing. but then But then to me, the way that it was filmed when he says, he goes, down with the clown!
01:11:41.06
Lindsey Dunn
And then there's like five seconds of silence. And I thought there would be a lot more reactions happening.
01:11:44.57
Steve Barnes
Right. Right.
01:11:48.49
Lindsey Dunn
So I it felt like it that was a little anticlimactic.
01:11:49.11
Steve Barnes
Yes.
01:11:53.18
Lindsey Dunn
And then Marge just starts sort of screaming out of thin air. I know. I, I, it was a good, i liked the reveal. liked part of it. I liked the reveal of Maddie becoming Pennywise, but then it wasn't really scary. It was more, it was more, i don't know, entertaining. There he is, Maddie turning into Bill Skarsgård.
01:12:19.80
Lindsey Dunn
Impressive special effects there.
01:12:20.10
Steve Barnes
I'm glad to get.
01:12:21.92
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
01:12:22.84
Steve Barnes
Yeah. the The special, the Maddie turning into Pennywise, I'm going to say it didn't quite work for me. Like I saw it happening and I accepted it, but it it didn't knock me off my feet. um And like you said, there was that, that pause there, that three second pause where they expect yeah it's like they left the left room for the audience to cheer or to clap or something or go, Oh, I think that's what the gist was is they were giving people a chance to yell and do their reaction videos or whatnot.
01:12:47.61
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
01:12:54.87
Steve Barnes
But when he said like his little duck and cover phrase, i really appreciated that a lot. Um,
01:13:00.02
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah, that was funny.
01:13:01.56
Steve Barnes
It was not only funny, but it made me remember like in the opening segment of this whole, okay, he says duck and cover kids, which is like, you know, this slogan from the turtle and it's all tied in with nuclear war and the opening credits, the kids are watching the film with a nuclear blast happening in the background.
01:13:20.59
Steve Barnes
And it's Pennywise that is operating the film. You see like his clown hand,
01:13:26.08
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm.
01:13:26.87
Steve Barnes
So I think that's really neat. I think that's kind of tied that made me think about that intro how it's actually Pennywise at the helm there warning the kids they got to start ducking and cover because here he comes with his nuclear assault.
01:13:42.07
Steve Barnes
Now, once he started talking and leering about and saying stuff and chasing them, I was very much on board. i was very glad Pennywise was back in the show.
01:13:52.34
Steve Barnes
But the initial reveal, just like you said, it it underwhelmed me as well.
01:13:58.52
Lindsey Dunn
I thought it was more scary. There was a moment when when when the two soldiers that get separated from the group and they're down in the sewers and the guy turns into the I want you.
01:14:06.96
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
01:14:12.60
Lindsey Dunn
and don't know what they call that guy, but yeah, Uncle Sam.
01:14:12.63
Steve Barnes
Yeah. Uncle Sam.
01:14:15.70
Lindsey Dunn
Okay, so before Uncle Sam comes out, he's just in the dark and then his finger slowly comes out and there's kind of that to me is so well done when they do stuff like that. It was the same feeling I got when Dick has his vision when he's on the plane and Pennywise is like, who are you? And he's just in the dark and you can't see him.
01:14:41.75
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
01:14:42.15
Lindsey Dunn
That's so much scarier than, than when it's like, you know, giant.
01:14:44.09
Steve Barnes
Yep, it is. In your face screaming.
01:14:47.77
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
01:14:48.39
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
01:14:48.53
Lindsey Dunn
In your, or the, or the jerky, did-a- did-d did- did- to do when they come, when it comes really close to you, it It, dumb yeah.
01:14:54.49
Steve Barnes
Not as, yeah.
01:14:55.82
Lindsey Dunn
it
01:14:56.26
Steve Barnes
I'm with you.
01:14:57.62
Lindsey Dunn
So, yeah. it um I know everybody is just excited that Pennywise is back, but yeah, I think I just like, I find his other forms scarier right now than I do Pennywise.
01:15:10.94
Lindsey Dunn
To me, Pennywise is just entertaining, but yeah.
01:15:15.10
Steve Barnes
He's recognizable, you know, he's iconic people, people been waiting for him and now he's here.
01:15:16.25
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
01:15:20.73
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. um
01:15:22.30
Steve Barnes
um
01:15:22.97
Lindsey Dunn
Oh, that was the the I did want to talk a little bit about Marge and Lily and their reunion. So they we kind of catch up with them pretty early in this episode.
01:15:36.31
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
01:15:36.95
Lindsey Dunn
And you know Marge is recovering in the room and Lily's there. And it kind of bothered me that when she comes Lily comes in, her lead kind of thing is that what did you tell them about me? You know, she seemed more interested in what did you tell the authorities then?
01:16:03.61
Lindsey Dunn
hey are you okay? I'm glad you're okay. um I mean, they, they've been on the fritz, they've been on the fritz, but it kind of bothered me that um I felt like her main motivation of coming into the room wasn't to check on her friend.
01:16:09.58
Steve Barnes
That's valid.
01:16:19.21
Lindsey Dunn
It was more, you know, what's going to happen next? what are you going to tell everybody? um Which is understandable, but still, i felt like it was a little cold.
01:16:29.85
Lindsey Dunn
um But she does make up for that later by saying, if he comes back again, you won't be alone. um And then Marge, i I thought her speeches and her lines was very sincere this time. She really seems to be trying to make up for lost time.
01:16:50.93
Lindsey Dunn
She's quick to apologize for not believing her friend. And, um and yeah, she wants to help now. And the friend group seems a little slow to accept her, except for Rich, who is kind of, hi, the very beginning.
01:17:07.19
Steve Barnes
Oh, yeah, that's right. He's into it. I forgot he's into this. Yeah.
01:17:12.06
Lindsey Dunn
I did wonder how, i guess the only, yeah, the only question I kind of wondered is, when we when they show a picture of her eyelid, her eyelid has all these scratches and wounds on it.
01:17:25.69
Lindsey Dunn
And I was kind of like, that doesn't make sense because it was her eyeballs that she cut. So, I mean, I guess they had to do something.
01:17:34.81
Steve Barnes
I guess like that her cutting off those, those protruding eyeballs and the blood was just imaginary. And I guess the only thing that was real was like her stabbing herself in the eye when she actually did it herself.
01:17:48.15
Steve Barnes
um That's the gist that I got, but yeah, it didn't look like as bad as I thought it would look.
01:17:48.89
Lindsey Dunn
The good point, good point. Okay.
01:17:53.78
Steve Barnes
And I didn't pick up that vibe. I mean, what you said about Lily there is obviously valid, but I i didn't catch that vibe at all. And I watched it twice and both times I i found it sincere.
01:18:08.82
Steve Barnes
um um'm I'm just.
01:18:10.91
Lindsey Dunn
Lily's right. ah real Lily was right to be a little standoffish maybe because Marge, you know, was almost going to but play a mean prank on her. So maybe it was that kind of, can I trust you?
01:18:21.62
Steve Barnes
Mm hmm.
01:18:23.57
Lindsey Dunn
Can I not? So I just, I thought it was, I thought at the same time, i wish she would have said, are you okay?
01:18:24.66
Steve Barnes
Yeah, that's what I saw.
01:18:30.53
Lindsey Dunn
First, at least before she said anything else, like I shouldn't be here because everybody thinks I did it.
01:18:31.22
Steve Barnes
Sure.
01:18:37.58
Steve Barnes
That's what you would have said first. You would have brought flowers and said, how you doing? Let's talk about you first, Marge.
01:18:45.50
Lindsey Dunn
would have said, how are you? Are you okay? I was worried about you. And then I might say, so what are you going to tell them as an afterthought?
01:18:52.95
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
01:18:56.50
Lindsey Dunn
At least that's what I'd like to think about myself. Who knows? i would haven't been in this situation yet.
01:18:59.82
Steve Barnes
Sure. I think you would have done the right thing. You're a kind person, Lindsey.
01:19:04.50
Lindsey Dunn
Thank you.
01:19:06.36
Steve Barnes
um I thought it was really fun here. Like how, remember we said last time that, you know, everybody's going to end up in the tunnels at the same time. What are you doing here? Oh, what are you doing here?
01:19:16.76
Steve Barnes
And that's actually what happened.
01:19:18.53
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm.
01:19:18.76
Steve Barnes
It's like, it seems almost coordinated. Like Pennywise lured these kids into the tunnel and And then possibly if Pennywise is working underhandedly with Shaw and maybe indirectly with Daniel and Dick, maybe this was all a coordinated attack because that's what Shaw told them initially was shoot anything that doesn't belong down there. And obviously the kids are like that.
01:19:45.82
Steve Barnes
And the first vision that they sent Leroy was one of Charlotte, which we're going to talk about that next year. But yeah, you know So that right there that establishes your loved ones could be down here, your loved ones being Will. So you know as soon as Polly starts saying, yeah, okay, shoot my gym teacher, got it. I was like, oh no, they're going to shoot Will.
01:20:08.44
Steve Barnes
That was my very next thought. And of course that almost did happen next.
01:20:15.64
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. I mean, i i the same thing happened to me as soon as he said, we're going to shoot anything. and i was like, the kids are down there. oh no no, no, no, no.
01:20:26.42
Steve Barnes
Not them, not them.
01:20:26.54
Lindsey Dunn
And then and then that's what happened. But yeah. And then you had to drag poor Polly into the whole thing. So yeah. Let's go to our our last set here, being Charlotte.
01:20:38.97
Steve Barnes
Well, not quite yet. Not quite yet. We still got to wrap up with Lily here because Lily...
01:20:43.00
Lindsey Dunn
so Okay, I'm sorry. i thought we were done with these kids.
01:20:45.86
Steve Barnes
We ain't done with these damn kids yet. Lily, Lily Dunn got herself lost in the sewer.
01:20:47.96
Lindsey Dunn
Okay.
01:20:51.57
Steve Barnes
She's all looking back and forth. Doesn't know where she's at. Pennywise is running after her and Pennywise backs her up into a corner, but ah luckily enough, like the luck of the turtle, you might say, um that dagger ends up like right there between her and Pennywise.
01:21:08.12
Steve Barnes
Pennywise sees the dagger and does a, uh-oh yeah and just kind of backs off. Um, I would have thought he could have done a little more than that. Maybe he could have like done a lot of taunting before he ran off or maybe said some cool catchphrases, but he didn't
01:21:23.35
Lindsey Dunn
or try to get Or try to get her to drop it or give it, you know.
01:21:26.53
Steve Barnes
write or throw it away somewhere. Hey, throw it over there.
01:21:28.69
Lindsey Dunn
Oh, that's probably poisoned.
01:21:31.91
Steve Barnes
Cause she wasn't holding it. It was just in the water and she wasn't even aware of it.
01:21:34.20
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. after Yeah, when I first saw something glowing, I didn't even know what it was. i thought um maybe she'd reach one of the boundaries or maybe she had, um maybe he's it was her turtle bracelet.
01:21:45.24
Steve Barnes
okay
01:21:51.13
Lindsey Dunn
You know, i was I was trying to figure out
01:21:51.61
Steve Barnes
She did have the turtle bracelet. Like when he backed up in a corner, she did have the turtle was facing Pennywise. So I think some people might've thought that that's why Pennywise, you know, rich you know, recoiled.
01:22:04.63
Steve Barnes
But the, my first thought when I saw it glowing, I was like, I recognized it as the dagger on first glance, but I was like, how did it get here? This is not where Tanyol dropped it.
01:22:16.73
Steve Barnes
There's no way it would be here.
01:22:16.78
Lindsey Dunn
Right.
01:22:18.69
Steve Barnes
So I can think only think that, The turtle created a strong sewer poopy like current that pushed it over that way.
01:22:29.34
Steve Barnes
ah
01:22:30.21
Lindsey Dunn
The current, the poop current went this way.
01:22:32.38
Steve Barnes
oh Yep. I mean, I don't know how else it got there, but it was there to save the day.
01:22:40.85
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah, so ah now Lily has the dagger.
01:22:47.51
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
01:22:47.51
Lindsey Dunn
What do you
01:22:47.87
Steve Barnes
Okay. Yeah. Is she the keeper? Like all of a sudden, like, I hope it goes back to the correct hands because right now it's not in the right hands at all.
01:22:51.17
Lindsey Dunn
think? Yeah, i I have a feeling they're gonna... It's not gonna go back to their right hands
01:23:05.11
Steve Barnes
Oh, yeah
01:23:07.08
Lindsey Dunn
hands. That would be too ne neat of a story that if they're like... does this belong to? it belongs to these people. Let me give it back. Yeah.
01:23:16.31
Steve Barnes
Yeah, guess so. And speaking of which, why did that, I mean, that dude, what'd you say his name was? Puller? Color?
01:23:23.67
Lindsey Dunn
Fuller.
01:23:24.67
Steve Barnes
Fuller. He wouldn't let Daniel, like, hold on to that dagger, like, until, like, but not until the next day.
01:23:29.35
Lindsey Dunn
He let him carry it the next day.
01:23:33.49
Steve Barnes
Like, why?
01:23:33.75
Lindsey Dunn
Right. So what would he do? What's he going to do with it that that night?
01:23:38.17
Steve Barnes
Exactly. What was he going to do with it that night?
01:23:40.60
Lindsey Dunn
Well, they didn't know. i mean, they didn't know what it would do. So he's probably thinking, i need, you know, intel, need to keep this for safekeeping. And they didn't, because what did Rose say? It's not any, they know that it's not any harm or it it won't do any harm.
01:24:01.62
Lindsey Dunn
And yeah i I just saw that, that They're like, oh, this is a secret, you know, this is a weapon, so we'll hang on to this until you really need it.
01:24:12.57
Steve Barnes
Oh, just like straight up, you don't give prisoners weapons. Okay. Well, i mean, that makes realistic sense.
01:24:16.40
Lindsey Dunn
Right. I mean, you don't give them you don't give them a noose or anything. They don't want to lose Tanyal.
01:24:23.51
Steve Barnes
I was just thinking because it's magical. i was, I was just maybe thinking that perhaps Shaw was going to study it overnight or something or try to get some secrets from it.
01:24:34.26
Steve Barnes
Perhaps. I don't know.
01:24:35.61
Lindsey Dunn
I don't even know if he saw it.
01:24:39.41
Steve Barnes
That's true. Yeah.
01:24:40.22
Lindsey Dunn
I mean, she says she says she showed it to them, but who's them?
01:24:40.41
Steve Barnes
They're two different guys. Yeah.
01:24:45.04
Lindsey Dunn
Is it just the guards that were at the door or, you know, did she show it to Shaw?
01:24:49.27
Steve Barnes
Right.
01:24:51.43
Lindsey Dunn
Because all he saw was the magic slingshot. He only knows about the magic slingshot.
01:24:56.54
Steve Barnes
I guess that's true.
01:24:59.48
Steve Barnes
The magic shard is way better than the magic slingshot, in my opinion.
01:25:04.09
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah, yeah.
01:25:08.25
Steve Barnes
But yeah, I guess I'm good with moving on now to our last group, if you are.
01:25:10.43
Lindsey Dunn
Okay, I don't want to move until you were told me is ready. since I already had one false start. Okay, so yes, we're going to move on to our last little group, which is Charlotte, Polly, Russo, and Leroy Hanson.
01:25:27.90
Steve Barnes
Handling, you know, whatever.
01:25:28.97
Lindsey Dunn
Hanlon. Hanson? Who's the Hanson?
01:25:31.64
Steve Barnes
Yeah,
01:25:32.05
Lindsey Dunn
It's from the group Hanson, their singing group.
01:25:36.78
Steve Barnes
Leroy finally comes clean. He tells everything to Charlotte. And he's mad at Shaw, by the way, because he's like, why would you bring me into this mess and my family?
01:25:48.96
Steve Barnes
Shaw's like, well, i didn't think that y'all would move to Derry. I was hoping y'all would stay on the base where it's safe.
01:25:53.83
Lindsey Dunn
Thank you.
01:25:54.66
Steve Barnes
Leroy's like, yeah, uh-huh. So that's what they do. He decides to move his family to the base. And um Charlotte seems okay with that. And Will is not okay with that. He still wants to hang out with his friends. So the first chance he gets, he makes up a story about investigating the base and he hightails it up to his friends, of course.
01:26:16.85
Steve Barnes
um But yeah, Charlotte and Leroy here are finally on the same page. Leroy, the man without fear. I knew that this is what would happen, that it would use his own family against him because of course he doesn't have fear, but at the same time he wants to protect his family, but then he shoots his wife.
01:26:38.04
Steve Barnes
what What happened there? Lindsey? Lindsey?
01:26:43.59
Lindsey Dunn
I mean, he...
01:26:48.97
Lindsey Dunn
Polly tells him he doesn't see her.
01:26:52.66
Steve Barnes
Oh, that's right.
01:26:52.70
Lindsey Dunn
So then he...
01:26:53.11
Steve Barnes
so he So I guess he realizes that it's a vision and then he shoots.
01:26:56.70
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah, he realizes after his old reliable, his ride-or-die Polly Russo...
01:27:04.10
Steve Barnes
Ride or die, you say? Well, these two guys are teamed up together and yeah, that's apparently what happened because he has this vision of Charlotte so he believes these visions are just visions.
01:27:06.18
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
01:27:16.69
Steve Barnes
So then he sees the real Will goes to shoot it, Pauly also sees it's the real will. And this was one of the logistic issues, logistic things I had issue with, um because it didn't seem likely that Pauly could have jumped all the way in front of that long barreled rifle to catch that bullet. But he did, but he did.
01:27:39.90
Steve Barnes
um Because his... his His protective gene is so strong and so full of love that he was able to skirt in front of that gun and take a bullet for Will.
01:27:52.57
Steve Barnes
And yeah yeah, they killed Pauly here, Lindsey. We're not going to see him anymore. And why why didn't they make his last words, you know, how's my hair?
01:28:04.66
Lindsey Dunn
Hair.
01:28:05.69
Steve Barnes
And then he passes away. Why not?
01:28:08.47
Lindsey Dunn
Does my hair look okay? Yeah.
01:28:11.56
Steve Barnes
Missed opportunity.
01:28:11.86
Lindsey Dunn
They did another sort of cheesy line. Make it count.
01:28:16.60
Steve Barnes
Yeah. What would you say?
01:28:17.50
Lindsey Dunn
Make it count.
01:28:17.96
Steve Barnes
Like, keep it, make it count. Yeah.
01:28:20.70
Lindsey Dunn
And then he said, it's my turn. He said, those, those are the two things I saw. So, I mean, it was very, it was very reminiscent of like saving private Ryan.
01:28:26.90
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
01:28:31.50
Lindsey Dunn
He says, earn this. i hate that line from that movie. We get that. That's a, that's a story for another day, but. um
01:28:41.96
Steve Barnes
Or I'm thinking of stay gold, pony boy. That's like my dying phrase that I hate.
01:28:44.76
Lindsey Dunn
Hey, now don't, don't touch that one.
01:28:48.18
Steve Barnes
Sorry, just did. ah
01:28:49.75
Lindsey Dunn
Hands off! but here You've been slapped. Okay.
01:28:54.81
Steve Barnes
He tells Leroy to stay gold and Leroy does. But yeah, Pauly's ghost is still walking around out there though. So that's something to hope for.
01:29:02.65
Lindsey Dunn
We might we might see him again, Steve, in his ghost form.
01:29:07.54
Steve Barnes
Maybe he'll be helpful somehow.
01:29:09.50
Lindsey Dunn
That does seem kind of, you know, I know they they needed that to happen to make the point that Halloran can now see dead people, but
01:29:19.03
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm.
01:29:19.32
Lindsey Dunn
That was kind of upsetting in a way because Polly just is, he's just saved, he's done this sacrifice for his family, or his, well, his kind of family, his chosen family.
01:29:32.65
Steve Barnes
Chosen family. Yeah.
01:29:33.88
Lindsey Dunn
And does he get repaid? he doesn't He doesn't get to rest in peace. He has to like wander around looking confused in service of scaring Dick Halloran.
01:29:45.82
Steve Barnes
I guess so. yeah But it's for the greater good, you know, like you said, you got to, oh what was his dying word? You know, say it again.
01:29:56.06
Lindsey Dunn
ah make it count.
01:29:57.56
Steve Barnes
yeah He's got to make it count. He's got to make that apparition, spiritual visage count somehow.
01:30:00.15
Lindsey Dunn
ah so
01:30:05.76
Steve Barnes
So maybe he can, maybe he can scare Pennywise, you know, don't know. They could pull out a gun.
01:30:10.78
Lindsey Dunn
I want to, I want, if you're listening, Polly, I want to let you know your hair looked fabulous even in death. Oh.
01:30:17.62
Steve Barnes
Yeah, he's just kind of got, even when his hair is messed up, it still looks good. i guess it's the amount of cream he puts in it that holds its shape.
01:30:27.30
Lindsey Dunn
I'll tell you what I thought was going to happen here was actually before when when General Shaw has his one-on-one with Leroy and he says, hey, you can maybe you can move your family to the base.
01:30:32.73
Steve Barnes
Okay. Okay.
01:30:43.67
Lindsey Dunn
And Leroy says, there's no maybe about it. And he's like, sir. And he walks off and we so we see him getting in, you know, leaving the base with his family.
01:30:50.97
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
01:30:55.42
Lindsey Dunn
I thought they were just leaving. not leaving to move into the base. I thought he was like, I'm getting out of here, me and my family.
01:31:02.76
Steve Barnes
I'm going AWOL. Mm-hmm.
01:31:04.79
Lindsey Dunn
And I guess that's not in keeping with his character. That doesn't make sense for this man of duty. um But I, I was, at first I was like, yeah, hip, hip, hooray, you're leaving.
01:31:17.66
Steve Barnes
Oh, man.
01:31:17.78
Lindsey Dunn
But, but, you know, not because I want to get rid of him, but I thought that was, you know, he was, he would be making,
01:31:18.33
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
01:31:21.85
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
01:31:25.69
Lindsey Dunn
I mean, I didn't think it was going to work. I thought they were going to be like, where are you going? Oh, I'm going on a one night vacation with my family. And then he's going to escape.
01:31:36.10
Lindsey Dunn
And then General Shaw would be like, you're not leaving until you do X, Y, and z um That's not what happened. But he was just moving his family to another little apartment.
01:31:45.07
Steve Barnes
It's not.
01:31:47.95
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
01:31:49.66
Steve Barnes
Short-lived luxury. I'm sorry, Lindsey, but yep.
01:31:53.52
Lindsey Dunn
I did think that Charlotte, I didn't think she was totally cool with it.
01:31:53.53
Steve Barnes
Just.
01:31:57.69
Lindsey Dunn
um I mean, I, I mean, she, remember, she's also starting to make friends and she also has her, her work, her activism.
01:32:03.45
Steve Barnes
well
01:32:07.66
Lindsey Dunn
And if she's at the base, is she able to, um is she able to be free work, continue to work on Hank Grogan's case or is Leroy going to insist you stay on base at all times?
01:32:08.52
Steve Barnes
That's right.
01:32:20.73
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
01:32:22.07
Steve Barnes
Yeah, um that's a good point. It sounds like she's still working on Hank Grogan's case because she was in that small kitchen making phone calls and making checking up behind Hank Grogan to make sure he's all good. So I think she's still going to be good behind the scenes, but that's a great point. um She wants to be more in town and she wants to be more involved and on that military base. That's not the case except for, I mean, of course we know that she's going to have a ah little adventure ahead of her now because, you know, one of the last scenes is like Ingrid coming to the base to visit Charlotte, to let her know that, you know, they have Hank and that they need to hide out somewhere. So, I mean, Charlotte's right place, right time at this point.
01:33:04.42
Lindsey Dunn
Well, all she says is we have a mutual friend.
01:33:08.57
Steve Barnes
We know who the, it's not Stan. Yeah.
01:33:10.64
Lindsey Dunn
Well, no, I don't think it's Stan, but there was nothing said about we need a place to hide this dude. But yes, that's probably what
01:33:18.54
Steve Barnes
Well, no, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because like that, they were having a conversation in the woods. What are we going to do? oh oh, I know what we can do. and the next thing you know, they're talking to Charlotte.
01:33:27.51
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. Yes. I think that I think I'm on the same page, but there was, it's not, that's a future thing. We're speculating.
01:33:36.18
Steve Barnes
Right. And you know what, Lindsey, everybody is speculating from here on out. I'm serious because if we were one of these, you know, some people get advanced copies. I know sometimes you get advanced copies of shows and movies, but in this case, we did not get any advanced copies of Derry. So we're watching this on Sunday night and recording it the next night with, you know we don't get very much time. Right.
01:33:59.67
Steve Barnes
all these other podcasts and YouTubers and et cetera, et cetera. They got the first five episodes that they could watch.
01:34:06.42
Lindsey Dunn
Some of them did.
01:34:09.06
Steve Barnes
Oh, well, the ones that I've been listening to are now saying stuff like, we don't know what's going to happen because we don't have any more episodes to view and blah, blah, blah, blah.
01:34:16.95
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah, everybody who got screeners only got five.
01:34:17.10
Steve Barnes
So some people.
01:34:21.50
Steve Barnes
Yes. So all these YouTubers and podcasters like ourselves, um, we're all speculating from here on out for these last few episodes.
01:34:32.12
Lindsey Dunn
And we always have been.
01:34:34.48
Steve Barnes
Of course, because we're,
01:34:35.96
Lindsey Dunn
Except for when Steve looks at spoilers. Yeah.
01:34:39.90
Steve Barnes
Well, even the spoilers that I look at are not really real spoilers.
01:34:41.82
Lindsey Dunn
yes
01:34:43.54
Steve Barnes
They're just like spoiler images that they drop because they're allowed to drop them. They're like prepared spoilers to spurn conversation. So it's not like I'm getting any advanced information that nobody else has.
01:34:57.75
Steve Barnes
um i mean, I'm just like you guessing as we go.
01:34:59.86
Lindsey Dunn
yeah Well, there was that there was that one week that you said, oh, I know for sure next week the kids are going to be much older and and all that stuff.
01:35:08.06
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
01:35:08.36
Lindsey Dunn
And it's like,
01:35:08.86
Steve Barnes
Well, that's because that was a production note that that was advertised, not advertised.
01:35:13.01
Lindsey Dunn
yeah. Well, they didn't look they don't look that much older to me.
01:35:16.95
Steve Barnes
Oh, you don't think so? I think Will is the one that.
01:35:18.90
Lindsey Dunn
Only Will is, but it' it's not like his voice is all deep now.
01:35:19.59
Steve Barnes
know
01:35:22.54
Lindsey Dunn
And he's just a little taller.
01:35:22.87
Steve Barnes
No, it's not. Yeah.
01:35:24.74
Lindsey Dunn
He's a little taller, yeah.
01:35:25.06
Steve Barnes
And he's taller and his face has like gotten slimmer as well. Like his face has gotten taller too.
01:35:32.99
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
01:35:33.56
Steve Barnes
Will, you got a tall face.
01:35:38.26
Lindsey Dunn
So, yeah. i Well, I'm ready to break the episode unless there's anything you want to discuss.
01:35:44.29
Steve Barnes
I want to discuss your rating of the episode, Lindsey.
01:35:46.68
Lindsey Dunn
Okay. Do you want me to go first?
01:35:50.57
Steve Barnes
do. Yes, I do
01:35:51.54
Lindsey Dunn
Okay. Well, I guess you probably won't be surprised. I'm going to give this five turtles again.
01:35:58.34
Steve Barnes
I'm very surprised, actually. Five. This is another five episode for you.
01:36:03.16
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. You're surprised. I love this episode. I thought it just, I thought it just kept going. We had the reveal of Maddie. And even though it was a fake reveal, that was, that was quite something to see him again.
01:36:14.97
Lindsey Dunn
I never expected we'd see him again at all.
01:36:15.66
Steve Barnes
That's right.
01:36:17.85
Lindsey Dunn
um I think he was even in an interview. i saw him in an interview and he was, you know, that be he was being asked the question, is it possible Maddie's still alive? And he was doing a really great job, not giving anything away. um and For him to do the amount of work he did in this episode, you know, we didn't we didn't ever get to see much about him in the first episode.
01:36:42.52
Lindsey Dunn
it was
01:36:43.06
Steve Barnes
right
01:36:43.38
Lindsey Dunn
He was the first scene and that was it.
01:36:45.71
Steve Barnes
That's it?
01:36:46.26
Lindsey Dunn
And he really had to do a lot of different moods in this episode. So I thought it was it was great for him.
01:36:51.19
Steve Barnes
Oh, yeah.
01:36:53.29
Lindsey Dunn
and then we had this operation happen in the sewers, but of course it all went wrong. We had the kids high on mommy's little helper.
01:37:05.25
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm.
01:37:06.30
Lindsey Dunn
There just wasn't any drag at all for this episode. It was all very fast paced. i was on the I was on the seat of my pants. On the seat of my pants. That doesn't make any sense.
01:37:17.82
Steve Barnes
I was sitting down.
01:37:17.84
Lindsey Dunn
I
01:37:18.48
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm. ah was sitting down
01:37:22.86
Lindsey Dunn
was on the edge of my seat waiting to see what was going to happen. And it was very intense. So i i thought it was I thought it was a great episode. I kind of wish now that, you know, if I had so if i knew how this, you don't see what the episodes are going to be one after another.
01:37:44.34
Lindsey Dunn
so i I liked this episode even better than the episode last week.
01:37:49.94
Steve Barnes
Dang, so it's like a 5.1 kind of thing.
01:37:50.36
Lindsey Dunn
well Yeah, it's like it's like honors classes and a you actually got a 5.0 instead of 4.0.
01:37:52.34
Steve Barnes
Wow.
01:37:59.22
Steve Barnes
Yeah. You get like a little extra sticker on your diploma kind of thing.
01:38:02.84
Lindsey Dunn
An extra turtle sticker.
01:38:06.39
Steve Barnes
Well, yeah, I thought this episode was better than the last episode as well. So I also had to go up in my rating. I'm going up to four turtles this time around. This is the second episode I've given four out of five turtles to.
01:38:17.91
Steve Barnes
i did think there were a couple of um things, like the whole military plot had me scratching my head.
01:38:18.14
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm.
01:38:24.83
Steve Barnes
Opening fire on Tanyul. That had me like... jumping up in my seat, like with my fingers, crossed my, ah my eyes crossed and my arms in the air.
01:38:34.97
Steve Barnes
Like, what are you doing?
01:38:36.40
Lindsey Dunn
Plus, is it very safe to shoot a firearm in a sewer system?
01:38:40.44
Steve Barnes
no No, it's going to ricochet and hit you back in the eye. i mean, that's terrible. And then the Uncle Sam, I did not like the Uncle Sam visage.
01:38:50.70
Steve Barnes
I thought that was more humorous than anything, but I'll take humor.
01:38:50.69
Lindsey Dunn
know.
01:38:55.42
Steve Barnes
And the whole shooting Daniel thing, I think, it irritated me so much that I kind of ended up coming back around and thinking it was funny and liking it. So just all around, this was a fun ride.
01:39:08.18
Steve Barnes
So I got to give it four out of five.
01:39:08.66
Lindsey Dunn
Mm hmm.
01:39:10.18
Steve Barnes
I haven't seen that five turtle episode yet, but we're getting darn close.
01:39:15.66
Lindsey Dunn
I've only got three episodes left.
01:39:17.75
Steve Barnes
I know.
01:39:18.44
Lindsey Dunn
OK.
01:39:19.26
Steve Barnes
So we've got MVPs too this week.
01:39:20.50
Lindsey Dunn
and MVPs. Yes. Well, you can go first this time.
01:39:24.02
Steve Barnes
Okay. Um, I mean, bunch of strong contenders in here, but I'm going to have to give, even though I did not like his original appearance and that it was, I thought it was a bit of a lackluster experience.
01:39:38.14
Steve Barnes
he's been on everybody's minds and he's been so anticipatory and he gave his lines so well. And Pennywise, I'm going to give it up to you this week and give you MVP of the week because we've been waiting for you.
01:39:53.75
Steve Barnes
You did a great job. Thank you. Pennywise.
01:39:57.94
Lindsey Dunn
Pennywise?
01:39:59.32
Steve Barnes
Yes.
01:40:00.15
Lindsey Dunn
and but I'm shocked.
01:40:00.61
Steve Barnes
Pennywise. ah
01:40:01.90
Lindsey Dunn
I'm shocked.
01:40:03.54
Steve Barnes
He did a lot this episode. There was a lot of moving parts.
01:40:05.62
Lindsey Dunn
What did
01:40:07.22
Steve Barnes
He organized this whole thing about getting the kids in the sewer and Maddie, the Maddie puppet. in
01:40:13.46
Lindsey Dunn
okay that' Okay, this is interesting.
01:40:13.82
Steve Barnes
ah
01:40:15.38
Lindsey Dunn
This is interesting. Okay, I'll ah i'll let you.
01:40:17.14
Steve Barnes
Okay.
01:40:18.94
Lindsey Dunn
Maybe I'll tell you who my MVP is and then and then I'll tell you why. Then you'll you'll know why it's so interesting. My MVP is Maddie.
01:40:27.64
Steve Barnes
Little Maddie. e Okay.
01:40:28.73
Lindsey Dunn
Yes.
01:40:29.44
Steve Barnes
Little dead Maddie.
01:40:30.01
Lindsey Dunn
maddie maddy's
01:40:30.74
Steve Barnes
yeah
01:40:32.30
Lindsey Dunn
Maddie's and badty's acting as Pennywise because he is Pennywise, but it's mad the character of Miles Eckert, the actor of Miles Eckert,
01:40:36.63
Steve Barnes
Oh, okay.
01:40:43.74
Steve Barnes
Yes.
01:40:45.78
Lindsey Dunn
um being Maddie Clements as Pennywise.
01:40:50.07
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
01:40:50.17
Lindsey Dunn
So he you know he had to convince the Losers Club about why, how he survived. And he does that whole monologue about what happened to the kids and giving all the details about how the pert he was eating the brains in front of him.
01:41:05.04
Steve Barnes
Oh, that's right. Yeah.
01:41:11.93
Lindsey Dunn
I mean, it was it was pretty gruesome stuff. And his his little his little actor, you know, he did good with that. And then he the way that he hid his him his evilness inside of this little boy was great.
01:41:30.28
Lindsey Dunn
And then he had, then he transforms into Pennywise. So there was a lot for Miles Eckert to do in this performance. And so I'm giving it, I'm giving it to him So when you said Pennywise, I feel like all Pennywise really did is he finished the pole dance and then, you know, then he scared Lily in the tunnel.
01:41:39.46
Steve Barnes
That's right.
01:41:47.83
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm.
01:41:52.63
Steve Barnes
Good line delivery. Come on.
01:41:54.17
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. Yeah. We just said it wasn't that scary when he can and eat when what we saw him. But okay.
01:42:02.06
Steve Barnes
Well, didn't give it to him for being scary. I just think he had his he had his clown act together this time around.
01:42:04.89
Lindsey Dunn
me
01:42:08.73
Steve Barnes
That's all.
01:42:09.30
Lindsey Dunn
Okay. maybe Maybe I'm just tired of people complaining about Bill Skarsgård. You know, where's Pennywise? There's Pennywise. But, you know, I'm not going to judge you for who you chose as your MVP character, Steve.
01:42:21.98
Steve Barnes
You already are judging me really hard. I can feel it. And nobody's going to say that anymore because he's here now. So now they can all shut their mouths and enjoy Pennywise the next few episodes.
01:42:28.98
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
01:42:32.82
Lindsey Dunn
Thank God. Thank God.
01:42:37.23
Lindsey Dunn
But I'm glad you didn't say, I'm glad you didn't say Maddie. Cause I was like, oh gosh, if he, had if he, if he says Maddie, then I have to go to my number two. And I would just, I just thought he did a great job.
01:42:49.69
Lindsey Dunn
So.
01:42:51.29
Steve Barnes
Yeah, I mean, um yeah for me, it was it was either Pennywise or Dick Halloran. One of the two of them was going to get my MVP this week. I didn't consider Maddie, even though you make a very compelling case.
01:42:59.86
Lindsey Dunn
Okay.
01:43:03.99
Steve Barnes
Last week, I didn't give Marge the MVP. I gave the actress who portrayed Marge the MVP.
01:43:09.89
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm.
01:43:10.66
Steve Barnes
Just like it seems like you're doing the same thing for the actor who portrayed Maddie, who like, you're absolutely right. Knocked it out of the park this week.
01:43:18.67
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm. See, I thought you might do Polly Russo.
01:43:23.70
Steve Barnes
Oh, as like a goodbye tribute.
01:43:25.37
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah, because he's...
01:43:26.30
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
01:43:27.29
Lindsey Dunn
you you may or may not see him anymore. And he was he was one of your faves.
01:43:33.05
Steve Barnes
Well, he got it one week. So, you know, that's, that's all one, one is all you get Polly.
01:43:34.90
Lindsey Dunn
That's right. That's right. You got to pass the love around.
01:43:37.54
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
01:43:41.68
Lindsey Dunn
Okay, so what do we predict is going to happen next?
01:43:45.27
Steve Barnes
Oh boy. um Well, I think a solid prediction that we both kind of stumbled upon together is that the Neobolt house and the sewers are a misdirect to the pillars.
01:43:58.82
Steve Barnes
I think maybe we'll find out the pillars are actually somewhere else.
01:44:02.49
Lindsey Dunn
Right. Or they could still be on the outskirts of town, but like the best way to find the pillars is just to drive to them.
01:44:10.65
Steve Barnes
Yes. that's how That's how it looked to me anyway. They're like around the edge of the forest. Just pull up on your bike.
01:44:17.30
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. it kind of you know ah like My first question would be, is there an easier way to get to these than to go through the sewers? Because That looks just darn uncomfortable and wet.
01:44:30.68
Steve Barnes
Yeah, the the kids buried them like in the ground. You saw them buried them in like in like three feet deep holes like in on the ground, not in the sewers.
01:44:34.93
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
01:44:41.40
Lindsey Dunn
Right.
01:44:41.59
Steve Barnes
See, I'm curious how that goes about. I've already made my prediction for how the Hank Grogan thing is going to go down. i i do believe that's exactly how that's going to play out, is he's going to be hiding out the black spot.
01:44:52.92
Steve Barnes
Word will get out and they will go get him.
01:44:55.05
Lindsey Dunn
Right.
01:44:57.18
Steve Barnes
um As for the kids prediction, do you have a prediction for any of the kids? Because I did all my predictions just now. How about you?
01:45:05.66
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah, i I didn't really have any with the kids. i already kind of said my doomsday predictions last week about the kids. um But I guess the only other, i had i kind of had the same things you just said.
01:45:19.86
Lindsey Dunn
The only other thing I have is speculation about the title because the title next week is in the name of the father. And so I was thinking, okay, who has a father relationship that that could be referring to?
01:45:34.64
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm.
01:45:35.90
Lindsey Dunn
And so I was like, well, Leroy and Will, obviously.
01:45:39.40
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm.
01:45:39.53
Lindsey Dunn
Lily and her dad. General Shaw and his dad. And then Bob Gray and Mrs. Kirsch.
01:45:47.02
Steve Barnes
That's what I was thinking. Yes.
01:45:47.86
Lindsey Dunn
Those were the child, um the child father relationships that I know of in this show. Well, Ronnie and Hank is also a a father child.
01:46:01.30
Lindsey Dunn
um So, yeah.
01:46:03.24
Steve Barnes
I kind of think in the name of the father, I'm kind of thinking that, yeah, my first instinct was Bob Gray and Ingrid. And I'm thinking that maybe you and Heather are right that Ingrid right now, episode five, she's altruistic.
01:46:21.46
Steve Barnes
She's just a normal, nice Derry woman who drinks milk instead of the water. But maybe next episode in the name of the father, in the name of my father, Bob Gray, I now have a new purpose in life.
01:46:34.42
Steve Barnes
And that is to be Perry Winkle, the clown, perhaps and she'll go on a spree.
01:46:37.84
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm.
01:46:41.18
Steve Barnes
i mean, it it's a, like it's a likely scenario. um i also predict that. Rich doesn't make it to the end of the season and that Marge will be Richie Tozier's father and that Rich, this Rich, will be the namesake.
01:47:05.08
Steve Barnes
of Richie. Like she will name her firstborn son after her first love. This guy who held her hand in the sewer. That's kind of, that's kind of what I'm thinking that he's not going to be her dad, but not going to be Richie's dad, but Richie's inspiration for his name.
01:47:21.71
Lindsey Dunn
Hmm. Okay, you're still you're still going with that Marge is Tozer's Tozer mom, huh?
01:47:27.90
Steve Barnes
Absolutely, dude. It's see it. I mean, it seems like a no brainer to me, honestly, just like we know that like, um, will Hanlon is Mike's dad.
01:47:38.94
Steve Barnes
Um, I think it's been telegraphed very loudly that this is going to be Richie's mom.
01:47:45.06
Lindsey Dunn
Hmm. I don't know. I'm going let, I'm going to let you keep that one, Steve. um
01:47:49.50
Steve Barnes
and Okay. In my pocket.
01:47:51.86
Lindsey Dunn
Um, yeah, the, yeah, I do. If he's going to, Hank Grogan's going to hide out at the black spot, he's going to have to be introduced to Dick Halloran.
01:48:03.16
Steve Barnes
Yes. Yes.
01:48:03.58
Lindsey Dunn
So that hasn't happened yet. We see that Ingrid and Charlotte are going to chit, chit, chat.
01:48:11.83
Steve Barnes
yes
01:48:12.15
Lindsey Dunn
So, um, I don't know. I'm just, I'm trying to figure out how that would happen, but it doesn't matter. We're going to see it eventually. But so far, Hank Grogan and, you know, Dick Keller hasn't.
01:48:26.04
Steve Barnes
fill in the blanks for you. Hank's going to, they're going say, Hank, you can, okay, here, here's my, here's my husband, Leroy. Hello, how you do? And this is some other guy will, I mean, Dick that he works with. Hello, how you do? um I need a place to stay. There's this place that we're doing black spot. You can stay there.
01:48:43.83
Steve Barnes
And then, Hank is known as like the dude that's crashing out at the black spot. Every it's kind of like on everybody, the back of everybody's tongue, like, oh, there's some dude that's like hiding out at the black spot.
01:48:57.88
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah, but there's there's there's a problem with that theory.
01:48:58.23
Steve Barnes
And I think that word gets around that way.
01:49:04.92
Steve Barnes
Okay.
01:49:05.88
Lindsey Dunn
The problem is that we think Leroy is going to be okay with them hiding a fugitive at the black spot.
01:49:15.10
Steve Barnes
Oh, maybe not. Maybe instead Charlotte will go straight to Dick and bypass Leroy. Cause right now Leroy has nothing to do with the black spot whatsoever.
01:49:26.62
Steve Barnes
Like he's never even been inside of it.
01:49:26.82
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm.
01:49:28.62
Steve Barnes
He'd seem to have little interest in it when he was there.
01:49:31.70
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
01:49:31.86
Steve Barnes
So yeah, you, I think you just, you just did it for me, Lindsey. Charlotte goes straight to Dick instead. Cause he's kind of like an impartial third party.
01:49:40.12
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. Or they might just, she might just, they might just found out about that this place exists. Maybe like nobody's, no maybe nobody's okaying it, but they're like, hey, there's going to be this club and he shows, I don't know. I don't know.
01:49:59.10
Lindsey Dunn
I don't know how many of these people actually know Hank. You know, he works at the movie theater, but do the military go to the movie theater? Who knows?
01:50:08.27
Steve Barnes
No, but it seems like everybody knows Lily's business. So it seems like word gets around town pretty quickly.
01:50:15.68
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. Well, we'll see soon enough. um So, so let's, do you have any plugs for this week, Steve?
01:50:27.03
Lindsey Dunn
Anything you want to promote?
01:50:29.78
Steve Barnes
Well, I always want to plug our, um, our main network MLM pod, which is found at patreon.com slash MLM pod. Um, my website is sweetchildoftime.com and you can find me on all the regular social places, Instagram, Facebook, Reddit.
01:50:49.65
Steve Barnes
I'm at all those places, but Instagram seems to be where I spend a good amount of time at. So look me up on there. Sweet child of time pod. Uh, how about you, Lindsey?
01:51:00.31
Lindsey Dunn
Well, I wanted to mention that my review of The Carpenter's Son is now up. So I did the interview with the director. Now I've reviewed the film. And a big change is now one of my stories is now on YouTube. I mean, I've always been on YouTube. I've done, had my interviews and my video reviews. But now my podcast, because of my change to moving my podcasting host to Riverside,
01:51:28.76
Lindsey Dunn
Each of my episodes of the podcast will now also air on YouTube automatically, like you had for a while.
01:51:35.86
Steve Barnes
nice
01:51:37.03
Lindsey Dunn
So that's that's nice. We'll see.
01:51:38.90
Steve Barnes
They'll do.
01:51:39.91
Lindsey Dunn
I'm not sure how many people listen to a podcast on YouTube, but okay. Some people some people seem to think that you know that it's you should go ahead and drop those episodes.
01:51:51.89
Steve Barnes
I think it all depends. Like when I was releasing my wheel of time episodes with James, I was getting way more listens on YouTube than I was anywhere else.
01:52:01.84
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
01:52:02.81
Steve Barnes
But that was the only case of that was like the wheel of time podcast. And now with Welcome to Derry, I get like maybe like a dozen to 20 listens on YouTube. But I mean, those are like extra listens that you wouldn't normally get.
01:52:16.55
Steve Barnes
under your podcast. So, you know, it's definitely worth it to do it. And some people do like a lot of people just have YouTube music and they use that app as like their music and their podcast app. And so those people will definitely find value with that.
01:52:32.57
Lindsey Dunn
Interesting. Okay. Um, the, the kind of the last two reviews for the year, I have to write a review of wicked for good and running man. Those are two movies i saw screeners for.
01:52:45.75
Lindsey Dunn
i will tell you neither one of them are that good. So if you really love wicked, wicked part one you should see it. But, um, Those reviews will be coming out soon is what I should say.
01:52:58.18
Lindsey Dunn
Not tell you what I think of the movie. Don't do a review right now, Lindsey. Just say they'll be coming soon. Yeah.
01:53:04.78
Steve Barnes
I'm fascinated by the press of Wicked the Good. However, it's befuddling the press releases that I'm seeing of those two actresses.
01:53:16.60
Lindsey Dunn
yeah Oh, well, the Proplicity Tour, yes, is going crazy. that's That's separate from the movie, but in a way it's it's connected.
01:53:21.62
Steve Barnes
Yes.
01:53:25.52
Lindsey Dunn
It's part of
01:53:25.70
Steve Barnes
It's enough to keep me befuddled. I'll tell you that.
01:53:31.06
Lindsey Dunn
Okay. Well, i think I think we've said everything we have to say for this week's episode. So, thank you for joining us in this episode of Welcome to Derry. May all the clowns you meet be kind. May all the friends you've met be kept safe in your hearts. And we hope to see you all next week for episode six.
01:53:50.57
Lindsey Dunn
In the name of the Father, goodbye.
01:53:53.93
Steve Barnes
Bye bye.
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