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| Morningstar Angeline as SESQUI |
Steve Barnes and I are joined by Reed Lackey of the Fear of God podcast to discuss episode 4 of Welcome to Derry. Episode 4 is what we at 1 of my Stories like to call a Barnes burner, in honor of our friend Steve Barnes. This episode takes us even further into the past with the first ever on-screen adaptation of It's origin story. As part of General Shaw's continued attempt to find the hiding place of It, he decides to use the power of Hallorann to force Taniel to reveal the location. He gets what he wants, but this will likely just open a channel for Pennywise to grow in his powers.
In addition to this glorious 20-minute story within a story, there are sizzling character interactions between Hallorann and Leroy Hanlon, who has turned on full dad protection mode. Charlotte has been activated by Hank Grogan's case to earn him some justice.
Now that Hallorann and the military have learned about Neibolt House, how long will they resist before they try to enter -- gun's blazing?
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| Jovan Adepo as LEROY, Chris Chalk as HALLORANN |
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| Blake Cameron James as WILL HANLON |
Lindsey Dunn is a film critic with membership in both NC Film Critics and Southeastern Film Critics. She loves all things Cobra Kai, Netflix Dark, indie horror, and any stories about complicated relationships. You can find her at 1ofmystories.com and most social channels @1ofmystories.
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| Madeleine Stowe as INGRID, Clara Stack as LILLY |
Transcript of the episode
Please note: transcripts may contain grammatical errors.00:00:01.54
Lindsey Dunn
Hello and welcome to Welcome to Derry. I'm Lindsey Dunn, your host of the 1 of My Stories podcast, and with me today is your other host from the Sweet Child of Time podcast.
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| Blake Cameron James as WILL, Arian S. Cartaya as RICH, Clara Stack as LILLY, Amanda Christine as RONNIE |
00:00:13.90
Lindsey Dunn
The two of us had plans to open a new place to blow off steam that we were going to call the Teal Triangle, but neither one of us likes cleaning. It's Steve Barnes. Ahoy, Steve!
00:00:25.04
Steve Barnes
Hey, ahoy there, Lindsey. Speak for yourself. I love to clean. i got a clean car. I got a clean room. I got a clean house. I love to clean, Lindsey. Not you.
00:00:35.20
Lindsey Dunn
I don't, well, some cleaning I enjoy, other cleaning I don't. I don't enjoy cleaning my bathroom, and I get tired of doing dishes because I have to do them every day since I don't have a dishwasher.
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| Chris Chalk as DICK HALLORANN |
00:00:43.19
Steve Barnes
Well, yeah.
00:00:48.01
Steve Barnes
They need some extra hands over at this new spot at the military base. A bunch of dudes are putting some stuff together. They need help cleaning out their old garage. You want to go help them out?
00:00:56.94
Lindsey Dunn
I don't know anything about that. We were going to open the teal triangle.
00:01:00.25
Steve Barnes
Oh, yes, we'll stick to the teal triangle then, whatever that is. Yeah.
00:01:05.41
Lindsey Dunn
But this week we decided to bring in some reinforcements.
00:01:08.55
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
00:01:08.83
Lindsey Dunn
Someone who really knows what he's doing. If I need backup, I'm not gonna call JFK or RFK. I'm gonna call Reed Lackey. Ahoy Reed!
00:01:17.68
Reed Lackey
Hey guys, how are you doing?
00:01:20.73
Lindsey Dunn
Good, thank you for joining us. Now, yes, you've been fighting the good fight against Pennywise for a while now.
00:01:22.74
Reed Lackey
Oh, thank you for having me
00:01:28.46
Lindsey Dunn
So please introduce your good work to our listeners.
00:01:28.58
Steve Barnes
Mmm.
00:01:32.88
Reed Lackey
Certainly, certainly. So, I am wearing, listeners can't see it, but I am wearing my Losers Club hoodie, specifically, with bike in hand.
00:01:37.66
Steve Barnes
Ah, dope.
00:01:41.80
Reed Lackey
No, I am one of the co-hosts, along with my good friend of two decades plus, Nathan Rouse, over at the Fear of God podcast, and we cover... horror films. It expands beyond just horror to thriller and sometimes even just movies, but from the lens of faith and philosophy and spirituality. You both have been on the show when we enjoyed our David Lynch series, which um we we had a grand time with. we We keep saying that we hope listeners had as as much fun in that series as we had in that series. um But Yeah, so that's that's where you can find all of my work, and I'm super privileged and thrilled to be here today.
00:02:25.05
Steve Barnes
Yeah, I follow you on Instagram too, the fear of God podcast. And I've seen a lot of your fans with smiling faces in places like libraries.
00:02:28.66
Reed Lackey
Thank you.
00:02:32.12
Steve Barnes
So I know they're listening. I know i know you're keeping people happy over there.
00:02:35.47
Reed Lackey
ah That's right. Oh, God, I love a library. Yep, me and libraries, we get along so, so well. It's like my home away from home.
00:02:41.68
Steve Barnes
you came to the right place.
00:02:43.42
Reed Lackey
That's right.
00:02:44.73
Reed Lackey
love it.
00:02:45.29
Lindsey Dunn
Libraries, bookstores, and now there's ads at the movie theater in Charlotte, I guess I've heard.
00:02:51.20
Reed Lackey
um Yes, yes. So during October specifically, we ah you could have, if you attended the Independent Picture House ah inside Charlotte, you would have been graced in one of those like preliminary ads with ah one of the um a big picture, ah kind of an homage to Looney Tunes of production.
00:03:11.94
Reed Lackey
my mug and Nathan's mug in cartoonish form jumping out of that center. So yeah, that was super cool for us. I gotta, gotta be honest that I geeked out tremendously at that. So it was really great.
00:03:24.56
Lindsey Dunn
I would have geeked out too. I would have been like, look, look what's up. Look, I know them. Yeah.
00:03:30.84
Reed Lackey
It was great.
00:03:31.13
Steve Barnes
Yeah, I know. Like I get a profound sense of connection when I see somebody that I know that's doing something on screen. So i would have been right there with you, Lindsey.
00:03:37.33
Reed Lackey
Sure.
00:03:38.55
Steve Barnes
I know that dude.
00:03:40.21
Reed Lackey
That's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah, was, it was really fun. And we've, ah yeah, we've made some connections over at the Independent Picture House. We love what they do. And, um and yeah, we're we're happy to, where we can to buddy up with them and and, you know, talk more about the show and promote more on the show about what they're doing. So yeah, it's really cool.
00:03:59.90
Lindsey Dunn
Okay, well, we're glad to have you, Reed, and we're here at episode four of Welcome to Derry, the great swirling apparatus of our planet's function.
00:04:03.19
Reed Lackey
Thank you.
00:04:04.58
Steve Barnes
Yep.
00:04:11.58
Steve Barnes
Oh, God.
00:04:11.77
Lindsey Dunn
That's a mouthful.
00:04:12.81
Steve Barnes
ah Yeah.
00:04:14.14
Lindsey Dunn
Reed, what were your overall reactions to this episode?
00:04:18.09
Reed Lackey
So um I have been really in for this show. um It has gone in waves of um like enjoying it to really liking it. A couple of moments I love.
00:04:32.22
Reed Lackey
I have not yet landed on a singular episode which has just made me run, tell everybody. Um, but I really have minimal complaints. I think the first episode particularly, and this is kind of threaded through, and then I'll get to episode four specifically is, um, I do think there are some pacing issues. I feel the length of every episode.
00:04:56.04
Reed Lackey
Um, that's not to say that it's boring.
00:04:56.22
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:04:58.24
Reed Lackey
I really want to make a distinction here. It's like, I'm never really bored in the show. but I can feel constantly this this pull of, how much longer do we have in the episode? Wait, how much longer? And and i and and when I am have the impulse to check the time, that to me, in my sensibilities, usually indicates maybe the pacing is not as tight as it could be. It's not as propulsive as I would love it to be.
00:05:21.20
Reed Lackey
And I felt that carried through in episode four, um but every single episode has delivered at least a couple of, oh my God, shocks. And I can't believe they put that on screen.
00:05:33.23
Reed Lackey
um This one featured, you know, the the first time that the show has actually legit jump scared me. I'm usually a little impervious to those kinds of things, but they, but one of the, one of the scares in this genuinely got me.
00:05:41.85
Steve Barnes
Nice.
00:05:42.42
Lindsey Dunn
Thank you.
00:05:43.19
Steve Barnes
nice
00:05:46.90
Reed Lackey
um And, and I do appreciate how things are starting to, come together and and start to connect. We're starting to really see how some of our characters we've spent time with are beginning to buddy up together and and get a little bit of clarity on their mission and what their obstacles are.
00:06:05.13
Reed Lackey
um So I do like that the show feels like its vision is coming into fruition, um even if I wasn't as super enthused about this particular episode as I was, say, specifically episodes two and three, which sort of hit the high mark for me in terms of overall entertainment, if that makes sense.
00:06:22.79
Lindsey Dunn
what What about you, Steve? where Where do you land on this episode? I know last week you were really bummed about that cemetery scene.
00:06:31.39
Steve Barnes
Yeah, I was bummed because, you know, it wasn't a terrible episode, but there were a couple things, kind of like Reed said, there's a couple moments that that take me out. um you know, the checking your clock. And that's not a great thing for like a, show for a show to have that, but you know, it happens.
00:06:45.94
Steve Barnes
So episode three, there was just a couple of real slight hiccups along the way, but nothing major. But then when the cemetery scene hit me, And then they were looking at those pictures at the end. And as I told you before, Lindsey, I was kind of disappointed how like they were so blurry to us, the viewers.
00:07:01.47
Steve Barnes
So I ended that episode real, like on a real sour note. And like, I didn't really appreciate it until second watch. um So this episode, episode four, this swirling apparatus, blah, blah, blah.
00:07:13.82
Steve Barnes
um It did the exact opposite. It like finished real strong. So like, that's what I was like left with was like this great ending
00:07:22.76
Lindsey Dunn
Thank you.
00:07:23.74
Steve Barnes
um A great intriguing ending as well. And then fade to black, then go to some Native American music. So this really ended strong. So despite anything I saw up until that point, you know, when you finish strong, that's that's a real good that's a real good thing for a TV show to do.
00:07:41.98
Steve Barnes
So, um I mean, all in all, like the great lore some great acting. they were There was some poor acting from the kids as well, but I saw some real high tier acting from one individual, which I'll get into later.
00:07:55.38
Steve Barnes
So yeah, real strong for me. Like I don't have many complaints at all. um The ones I do, y'all will be sure to hear them as we go along. So that leads you back to lee you, Lindsey. So um yeah. How are you liking this episode?
00:08:10.20
Lindsey Dunn
Well, I will share in a moment. I guess I wanted to hear what you guys had to say about this title, though. i I don't know. Is that is it referring to something specific?
00:08:16.51
Reed Lackey
Mm-hmm.
00:08:18.94
Steve Barnes
You know,
00:08:19.19
Lindsey Dunn
Or is it just their attempt to be fancy? What what is this great swirling apparatus thing?
00:08:23.84
Steve Barnes
i love that you're asking this because I've been, every episode I'm like, we forgot to discuss the title of the episode and what it means. So thank you for doing this. um I kind of believe that, you know, it's something the science teacher said off of off the cuff, but...
00:08:40.14
Steve Barnes
I think it kind of represents possibly, mature in the turtle and it from the universal aspect. Um, it could definitely tie in with like, you know, our, our millions of years aspect to dairy that we got this episode.
00:08:55.48
Steve Barnes
What do you think there, Reed?
00:08:57.29
Reed Lackey
I don't know. like I will be candid that I feel like it it didn't connect as a specific reference point. But the Stephen King universe is vast.
00:09:08.26
Reed Lackey
And though i have read pretty much every major published work and a couple of... um you know, off kilter, harder to find works. I'm not a an academic scholar of Stephen King's universe the way ah so many people are, to be able to just pull these references, oh, that was in this. I've read i've read most of his books once and a handful of them twice.
00:09:32.03
Reed Lackey
So I don't know if the great swirling apparatus of our planet's function is is specifically a callback to something someone says it might be. um But I think in this case, it might just be trying to, as you said, Steve, speak to the, the, the sort of the cosmic nature of how, how this is all very expansive and there's a lot of moving puzzle pieces.
00:09:50.32
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
00:09:57.25
Reed Lackey
um And it did feel like maybe it was trying to be a little bit fancy. Listeners can check me in, in some feedback next week on if there was a specific, reference that that that I'm not catching or that I'm not remembering.
00:10:09.96
Steve Barnes
I'd like to hear that too, yeah. Hey,
00:10:12.23
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah, i think I think for me, I was just like, what is this, a Pink Floyd song? I don't know, or a Pink Floyd album?
00:10:17.04
Reed Lackey
Yeah.
00:10:17.38
Steve Barnes
a yeah.
00:10:21.43
Reed Lackey
That's right.
00:10:21.43
Lindsey Dunn
they they The only reason I didn't, you you know, this is the first episode title that's been slightly confusing, Steve. Most of them, to me, you know, now you see it.
00:10:31.24
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm. Yeah?
00:10:31.77
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah, there hasn't been much to say, really. I'm like, pretty straightforward. But, well, you'll enjoy this, Steve.
00:10:34.90
Reed Lackey
Yeah.
00:10:37.45
Lindsey Dunn
This is fantastic. ah what I like to call a barn's burner of an episode.
00:10:41.40
Steve Barnes
yeah
00:10:43.19
Lindsey Dunn
I like this episode a lot. yeah I feel like we've left the safety zone of previous historical records. Up until this point with the Welcome to Derry show, they've sort of been bringing in these pockets of history we've already gotten.
00:10:59.98
Lindsey Dunn
And I feel like now it's sort of a little bit of a wild west. And that's kind of an exciting place to be that they are able to be a little more creative. And we're at fresh content.
00:11:11.53
Lindsey Dunn
ah The Muschiettis and their team are really dealing in no safety nets here. They're having to create the stuff from scratch while keeping the end in mind and bringing in more history, even from the Genesis story.
00:11:23.94
Lindsey Dunn
It's a wide open space, and that's scary and exciting. They can feel free to take those training wheels off, but I do think there's more room for people to poke at any hint of weakness.
00:11:35.57
Lindsey Dunn
But right now I didn't really, i didn't see any. I enjoyed how this ended. I enjoyed the lore of this 20 minute um story about the Shokopiwa.
00:11:55.56
Lindsey Dunn
And I feel like too often we've seen people do indigenous stories poorly or make them so skimpy and they really, They really opened up that universe and spent a good deal of time on it. So I was, i was happy.
00:12:11.60
Steve Barnes
Let me take this moment to um congratulate you, Lindsey, because you've correctly like guessed that it was Dick Halloran that was part of like the beat up crew and you got that one right.
00:12:23.72
Steve Barnes
And you've been like really nipping on this like thing about this Native American losers club. And I'm like, oh, Pasha. But here we go, Lindsey, you win. You got it.
00:12:34.37
Steve Barnes
So like I was thinking of you for sure when I saw this.
00:12:38.07
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah, that was exciting to hear. There were some things we we predicted correctly, some things we didn't. um
00:12:44.55
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
00:12:45.36
Lindsey Dunn
You know, Chief Bowers.
00:12:45.92
Steve Barnes
Take the win.
00:12:47.09
Lindsey Dunn
Chief Bowers and the other adults didn't see the images. You got you nailed that, Steve. um
00:12:53.02
Steve Barnes
That was easy. Hello hanging fruit. I would say though.
00:12:55.51
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. Will ending up telling Charlotte about the Grogan issue and that kind of getting her in with Hank. And yeah, the Indigenous Losers Club to the rescue.
00:13:07.34
Steve Barnes
Yeah, totally.
00:13:09.53
Reed Lackey
That was really awesome.
00:13:11.04
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. So we're now on to the Easter egg hunt. Kitchener Ironworks Easter egg hunt. Now, we're going to do this, guys, but I have to tell you, i'm I'm entering this Easter egg hunt a little bit grumpy and cynical because I feel like the definition of Easter eggs has gotten really skewered in this show and people are, you know, making a video of 54 Easter eggs.
00:13:30.16
Steve Barnes
Yes. Thank you.
00:13:35.10
Lindsey Dunn
it's like, okay, dudes, a red balloon is not an Easter egg because
00:13:39.90
Steve Barnes
Exactly.
00:13:40.58
Reed Lackey
Yeah.
00:13:40.90
Lindsey Dunn
Easter eggs are slightly hidden. they're things they they're things that only
00:13:42.70
Steve Barnes
Yes.
00:13:44.92
Lindsey Dunn
you know They're things that only certain people kind of recognize if they're really invested in the world. and
00:13:50.55
Steve Barnes
Correct.
00:13:50.55
Lindsey Dunn
And people finding 54 Easter eggs makes it kind of less exciting.
00:13:54.32
Reed Lackey
yeah
00:13:55.90
Lindsey Dunn
All right. So we do have some, though, and I recognize that. I may have less than either one of you two. um But as Reed's our...
00:14:04.16
Steve Barnes
It's a competition. Yeah, totally a competition. Who has the most wins all the eggs?
00:14:08.98
Reed Lackey
I will lose this one. I found a total of two eggs in this entirely.
00:14:14.15
Lindsey Dunn
ah so try not to make it a competition, but Steve keeps insisting it is a competition. But Reed, since you're the guest, we're going to let you go first.
00:14:24.63
Reed Lackey
oh gosh.
00:14:24.89
Lindsey Dunn
So what's your What's your one two?
00:14:25.07
Reed Lackey
Well, mine are... Well, i feel like I feel like I'm probably coming in with this whole like, oh my gosh, Reed's going to know everything there is to know about Stephen King and everything. but but ah But I don't really.
00:14:36.94
Reed Lackey
Honestly, the only thing that I could find that I think you haven't already touched on in the show before was in the bike ride going through Derry.
00:14:44.13
Lindsey Dunn
Uh-huh.
00:14:46.98
Reed Lackey
I did notice a couple of storefronts that ah that stood out. Not only um did ah let me consult my notes here not only did i notice um Quality Meats, which was more heavily featured earlier in the show, um but there was also ah Jade of the Orient, I thought I saw, which ah is infamously from It Chapter 2 or from the the miniseries and from the novel when...
00:15:04.97
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm. Yes.
00:15:11.79
Reed Lackey
the losers, our original losers, if we will, re-converge as adults and they go to that restaurant and Pennywise sort of freaks them out with all the fortune cookies. So I noticed that.
00:15:24.95
Reed Lackey
And then also, so this is a,
00:15:25.30
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm.
00:15:27.68
Reed Lackey
possible, but with a question mark. So I thought I saw Nan's luncheonette there as well. and if i and And so if I did, here's where my brain hiccuped.
00:15:35.15
Steve Barnes
You did, yes.
00:15:38.77
Reed Lackey
Again, I'm i'm probably not the Stephen King expert my reputation would would have me be. I'm pretty sure Nan's luncheonette was in Castle Rock. Is it in both? Because i was i was i my association with Nan's Luncheonette is castle is a Castle Rock establishment.
00:15:54.01
Reed Lackey
um
00:15:54.08
Steve Barnes
Yes.
00:15:54.58
Reed Lackey
and And we are here in Derry. So do either of you know is that is you know, does it show up both places? is there Yeah, so that that threw me for a loop. I was like, wait a second, is that a mistake? is it ah Is it an intentional tweaking of things? Was there a Nan's Luncheonette in both places? And and i don't have that answer in my pocket and couldn't research it before before I joined.
00:16:15.55
Reed Lackey
So do either of you know?
00:16:18.10
Steve Barnes
I don't, I can't say for certain. It absolutely is in Stephen King's work in Castle Rock. I don't remember it showing up in Derry. I just recognize it as a Stephen King Easter egg.
00:16:26.56
Reed Lackey
Yeah.
00:16:29.56
Reed Lackey
Yeah. Yeah.
00:16:30.40
Steve Barnes
Those are some solid eggs you brought though, man.
00:16:30.58
Reed Lackey
So I think, oh, well, well thank you.
00:16:32.16
Steve Barnes
Those are some really nice ones.
00:16:34.17
Reed Lackey
ah Yeah.
00:16:34.56
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm.
00:16:34.85
Reed Lackey
So, so it was really all just centered around that one scene. I thought I saw both of those places, but um Nan's luncheonette is the only one that threw me. If there's an astute listener who knows like, yeah, they, you know, Nan's luncheonette is in both places.
00:16:46.93
Reed Lackey
I just, where I would definitively, if I were answering a trivia question, is Nan's luncheonette from Castle Rock or Derry, I would have firmly said Castle Rock because I feel like the luncheonette is quite prominently featured in specifically Needful Things, which we've covered on my show before.
00:16:54.38
Steve Barnes
Yes. Same.
00:17:00.32
Reed Lackey
So I'm very familiar with that. um
00:17:02.42
Steve Barnes
Cool.
00:17:02.93
Reed Lackey
But yeah, yeah. Anyway, that's, yep, that's what I have to bring to the table.
00:17:07.22
Steve Barnes
Right on.
00:17:08.46
Lindsey Dunn
Good deal. You want to give your first one, Steve?
00:17:11.89
Steve Barnes
Sure. Yeah. I think, I think Reed gave up all his Easter eggs. Is that right?
00:17:15.70
Reed Lackey
Mm-hmm.
00:17:15.84
Steve Barnes
Was that your whole, but was that your whole basket?
00:17:15.84
Lindsey Dunn
He did, he did them all at once.
00:17:17.77
Reed Lackey
That's it. I apologize. Yeah, that's that's it.
00:17:19.67
Lindsey Dunn
That's okay.
00:17:20.01
Reed Lackey
that's
00:17:20.15
Lindsey Dunn
We, we passed it, we passed it around, but, but that's okay. But that's okay.
00:17:24.26
Reed Lackey
So that's all I have to offer. I will just yes i would just yes and amen all of yours from here.
00:17:25.80
Lindsey Dunn
Yep.
00:17:30.08
Steve Barnes
Well, this is one of these that Lindsey will probably say, this is not an Easter egg. um But I think it is because last week we saw those kids riding their bikes on the green screen so predominantly, and it was so goofy.
00:17:42.76
Steve Barnes
This week we saw the kids really, you said it before, really riding their bikes through town, really throwing their bikes down in front of their houses and stuff. So I was really happy that we saw some real bike riding this week. I was looking out for it.
00:17:57.94
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
00:17:58.33
Lindsey Dunn
Okay, well, my first one is the, is at the fishing scene, the you'll burn too. That's, you know, you'll float too Easter egg, connecting those two verbiages there.
00:18:06.54
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm. Sure.
00:18:12.21
Steve Barnes
I'll go right from that same scene too. Right before he says you'll float there, we see a koi fish float up to him, which koi fish, of course, is also known as a clown fish.
00:18:14.13
Lindsey Dunn
Hmm.
00:18:21.67
Steve Barnes
So I think that's quite deliberate.
00:18:23.79
Lindsey Dunn
Hmm.
00:18:24.47
Reed Lackey
Mm hmm. I said it so funny.
00:18:25.43
Lindsey Dunn
ah
00:18:26.97
Reed Lackey
I should have written that down because I said to my wife in the moment, I was like, that's a clownfish. I'm a big Finding Nemo fan.
00:18:32.35
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm.
00:18:33.80
Reed Lackey
And I was like, that's a clownfish. And I knew I was like, that's intentional.
00:18:38.19
Steve Barnes
Absolutely.
00:18:38.63
Reed Lackey
Yeah.
00:18:39.23
Lindsey Dunn
Very clever.
00:18:39.37
Reed Lackey
Yep.
00:18:40.17
Lindsey Dunn
Okay. The weapon that is mentioned in the story, the indigenous story, the shard that is in the it part two movie.
00:18:45.63
Steve Barnes
Oh, the shard.
00:18:50.49
Lindsey Dunn
That's like what Mike Hanlon presents to the losers club for helping do this ritual of chud.
00:18:58.89
Steve Barnes
I really got to rewatch those movies, I guess. Cause yeah, I'm missing out on lots of these, ye lots of these Easter eggs.
00:19:03.66
Lindsey Dunn
That whole like indigenous segment is is pretty interesting with, especially with this episode.
00:19:04.64
Steve Barnes
Yeah. Yeah.
00:19:08.58
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
00:19:09.80
Steve Barnes
um Will Hanlon, little junior historian. We see the first glimpses of him becoming the town historian when he's the first kid to suggest looking into Derry's history to see if there's any past, you know, kids missing.
00:19:24.08
Steve Barnes
So that was my little Hanlon Easter egg.
00:19:27.08
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm. So my next one is also with the indigenous segment um that we have, we they show this deer with did the stag.
00:19:38.10
Lindsey Dunn
And i thought this was in a way connected to the Wendigo. And this is a thing in at least two stories, the girl who loved Tom Gordon and Pet Sematary.
00:19:44.32
Reed Lackey
Mm-hmm.
00:19:44.67
Steve Barnes
Oh yeah, sure.
00:19:51.16
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
00:19:51.58
Lindsey Dunn
And ah as I was researching this, it's, this is something, ah thing that indigenous people tend to fear and they mentioned that um that of course we know Pennywise he appears it appears as the thing that the people fear the most and they mention in the story that it's what these people fear the most and so it connects to these other books
00:20:17.90
Steve Barnes
um maybe James can go and edit last week's podcast because remember when I was fumbling for the name of a book, I was like, Oh, it's a book called ah the girl who loved oh somebody.
00:20:28.47
Steve Barnes
ah couldn't remember the person's name. So that's what it was. So yeah, go back and edit at episode three and fix it. um My next one is, i thought this was a funny one.
00:20:40.48
Steve Barnes
There was a keep out sign. on what will be the black spot eventually. So I thought that was hilarious that there was a little keep out sign right there. i was like, you guys should probably heed warning.
00:20:54.55
Lindsey Dunn
I guess. I guess. That would be good advice.
00:20:59.73
Lindsey Dunn
um The rest of them, I don't really think they're real Easter eggs. That's not real Easter egg.
00:21:04.89
Steve Barnes
You don't, what about Flanagan? What about Tim Flanagan? Yes.
00:21:11.06
Lindsey Dunn
real easter egg It's not a real Easter
00:21:11.30
Steve Barnes
yes Yes, it is. Because when Mike Flanagan did his whole Haunting of Hill House, he was like, this person's name, Steve, after Stephen King. This person's name, Shirley, after Shirley Jackson.
00:21:22.53
Steve Barnes
So I think they were like, okay, let's throw in a Flanagan over here for Mike Flanagan. I swear.
00:21:27.65
Reed Lackey
it's it
00:21:27.75
Steve Barnes
Reed, what do you think?
00:21:28.92
Reed Lackey
Well, I would disbelieve you if Mike Flanagan had not so built so much of his reputation on Stephen King adaptations specifically. Like, he's got the new Carrie show coming out.
00:21:41.43
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
00:21:41.80
Reed Lackey
ah he he He made Gerald's Game. He made Doctor Sleep. He's done...
00:21:45.48
Steve Barnes
Yep.
00:21:46.47
Reed Lackey
what other people said was seemingly impossible before. They considered Gerald's Game an unfilmable book, and he did it, with a but the movie I really enjoyed a lot. um They considered that nobody could ever reconcile King's vision of The Shining with Kubrick's vision of The Shining, yet here we have Dr. Sleep, which I thought was really successful.
00:22:03.90
Reed Lackey
So honestly, i would tend to be skeptical about that, but Flanagan is so ingrained with adaptations of Stephen King's work, I think it's probably pretty intentional.
00:22:13.39
Steve Barnes
Oh.
00:22:14.82
Reed Lackey
So yeah,
00:22:15.11
Steve Barnes
ah
00:22:15.84
Reed Lackey
i would I would agree.
00:22:16.00
Lindsey Dunn
Well, okay, the only pushback I have, but besides, yeah ive already told you guys I'm grumpy about this game today, but um i I feel that if they were going to pay homage to Mike Flanagan, it would be better served by making a character like Mike Flanagan, and I don't see much of Mike Flanagan in this jock in the lunchroom, but...
00:22:20.11
Steve Barnes
Okay.
00:22:37.64
Steve Barnes
No, you're right about that. 100%.
00:22:39.24
Reed Lackey
That is a fair point.
00:22:39.31
Lindsey Dunn
um
00:22:40.53
Steve Barnes
hundred percent
00:22:40.97
Reed Lackey
That is a fair point. Yes. Yeah.
00:22:42.92
Steve Barnes
But in the lunchroom there, they were they were scaling up to do some big prank on Marge. And I think that prank is very much like a Carrie-style prank.
00:22:48.23
Reed Lackey
Mm-hmm.
00:22:51.55
Lindsey Dunn
Oh, wait, well, I was gonna go ahead and say that one, Steve, and you and you plowed ahead over me, but okay.
00:22:57.31
Steve Barnes
I thought you said you were done with yours. and That's why I plowed ahead.
00:23:00.14
Lindsey Dunn
I was just getting ready to say, okay, I'm gonna grab this one before Steve does, and you grabbed it before me, but that's okay, I'm done. So you can name the rest of your Easter eggs now at this point.
00:23:10.24
Steve Barnes
Okay. Tell me how wrong they are. Okay. um All the doors around um Dick Halloran and his little vision there were, I think that was an Easter egg from those doors of perception from the dark tower drawing of the three. There was a very similar scene in the drawing of the three to that, with the doorways leading into people's memories.
00:23:31.86
Steve Barnes
um That's legit. um
00:23:34.82
Reed Lackey
i could I would buy that.
00:23:35.09
Steve Barnes
We got to, we got to,
00:23:35.95
Reed Lackey
Yeah, I wouldn't i wouldn't argue with that.
00:23:37.61
Steve Barnes
Thank you. We got a song, Can't Judge a Book by Its Cover, and this song is being played while they're fixing up the black spot. And this it looks like a real piece of crap, but they're going to fix that sucker up so you can't judge a book by its cover.
00:23:52.55
Steve Barnes
I think that was a pretty neat song placement there. um And yeah, you're not going to like this one, Lindsey. I guess you're not, because it's not really an Easter egg, because everybody saw it.
00:24:05.01
Steve Barnes
But the reason I'm mentioning it is because The Valium, the Valium that um Lily produced, and she called it Mommy's Little Helper. That's why I want to bring it up, because Mommy's Little Helper did not become a popular term until around 1966.
00:24:21.74
Steve Barnes
And the Rolling Stones wrote a song called that, and that made it even more popular at that time. People weren't saying that back in 1962, unless you might want to say Lily's mom invented that term, perhaps.
00:24:35.82
Steve Barnes
But um I thought that was that was kind of telling, you know, the volume itself, which I thought was hilarious. I loved it when they pulled drugs out in school. That's awesome. And then, you know, she calls it mommy's little helper. So.
00:24:48.30
Lindsey Dunn
Or maybe she helped start, maybe she inspired the Rolling Stones. You know, maybe she's the girlfriend of one of the Stones.
00:24:56.32
Steve Barnes
She looks the type, you know, she looks the type.
00:24:56.92
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
00:24:59.51
Reed Lackey
i must ah I must comment, since you brought up the pills, that um and maybe I'm jumping ahead, so so forgive me, but but when there's a particular moment when ah Lily loses one of them and where she loses it, I almost came out my chair.
00:25:12.71
Steve Barnes
Yes. Yes.
00:25:14.77
Reed Lackey
i was like, don't do it. It ain't worth it. It ain't worth it. it' it's It's not worth it. And then my wife was sitting there, even to defeat Pennywise, I was like, I can't believe you're even considering this. No, it's not.
00:25:21.90
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
00:25:22.65
Reed Lackey
It's not worth it. Like you just steal yourself and and you you do not you do not have access to that assistance anymore.
00:25:24.17
Steve Barnes
Exactly.
00:25:29.40
Reed Lackey
It is gone.
00:25:30.01
Steve Barnes
It's gone.
00:25:30.83
Reed Lackey
That is there is no way.
00:25:31.01
Steve Barnes
It's gone.
00:25:33.39
Lindsey Dunn
Wouldn't it have dissolved?
00:25:34.90
Steve Barnes
Yes, I would think that too.
00:25:35.55
Reed Lackey
Yeah, that's the other piece. it's It's just like you're going to pull up powder is basically all you're going to do. um But man, she was she was going for it. and i was like, oh, God bless girl. Like, no, I could not could not stomach it.
00:25:46.01
Steve Barnes
Like a desperate junkie in a bathroom stall, basically.
00:25:48.37
Reed Lackey
yeah
00:25:48.81
Steve Barnes
That's another another Easter egg, perhaps.
00:25:51.43
Reed Lackey
Oh, man. Man, oh, man. So, yeah.
00:25:55.09
Steve Barnes
Um, yeah, that's pretty much all mine too. There's two more BS ones on here that I'm not even going honor. So yeah, we can move on from here.
00:26:03.17
Lindsey Dunn
Okay, yeah, no need to show off our rocks at our Easter egg hunt.
00:26:07.73
Steve Barnes
That's right.
00:26:11.06
Lindsey Dunn
Okay, well, we're going to move into character arcs because that's where the really meat and potatoes of these episodes always are.
00:26:17.93
Steve Barnes
Absolutely.
00:26:19.79
Lindsey Dunn
So we've had one week where we did people in order, then we did groups, and this week I just i couldn't figure out solid groups because there was so much interweaving of these characters.
00:26:31.92
Steve Barnes
That's right.
00:26:32.55
Lindsey Dunn
So we're going back to individual, but I tried to put them next to people that they had connections with.
00:26:38.53
Steve Barnes
You did a fine job.
00:26:38.53
Reed Lackey
Mm-hmm.
00:26:40.71
Steve Barnes
I just saw there was one missing. There was only one young man that was missing from your list, or maybe it was just missing from my cut and paste, but we'll, we'll, we'll get to them if we, if we miss them.
00:26:50.88
Lindsey Dunn
Oh, okay. Well, if he's not on here, I didn't find it to be consequential, but you can you can you can feel differently. So the first one is going to be Ronnie.
00:27:03.39
Lindsey Dunn
I don't have much to say about Ronnie here. I did want to point out That when Charlotte visits Hank Grogan's house to chat with his mom, Ronnie is lingering where she can eavesdrop.
00:27:15.58
Steve Barnes
yeah
00:27:15.75
Lindsey Dunn
I guess she knows now that dad wasn't really at home. Is Ronnie going to go investigate? And if so, who or what will she find at the end of that rainbow?
00:27:26.52
Steve Barnes
Okay. Yeah. You got any remarks about Ronnie here, Reed?
00:27:29.78
Reed Lackey
No, nothing much. It's interesting because she's right up top, but but I agree with Lindsey. like There's not a ton advancing for her individually.
00:27:38.20
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
00:27:38.72
Reed Lackey
She's in the background. She's she's you know among the collective, still a significant character. um But I thought... before the scene at the school cafeteria went the way that it did.
00:27:52.65
Reed Lackey
I did clock that when Lily runs to the bathroom, Ronnie perks up and is paying attention to what's happening. So I thought like, okay, if this goes badly, maybe Ronnie will intervene.
00:27:59.18
Steve Barnes
Okay.
00:28:01.28
Reed Lackey
But that's not the direction the scene went. So so yeah, I don't have much to add about Ronnie specifically.
00:28:07.20
Steve Barnes
It didn't add much to the scene, but that's a good thing to clock because, you know, it lets you know that Ronnie is concerned for her friend Lily, you know, because she's not eating lunch with them today.
00:28:13.81
Reed Lackey
Right, paying attention, yeah.
00:28:15.89
Steve Barnes
She's eating lunch with Marge. like She wants to clock that. um Yeah. What I wrote about Ronnie here is that she's a lovely character. I wish her well. um I didn't really have much to say about her either. Yeah.
00:28:28.56
Reed Lackey
Good luck, girl.
00:28:28.84
Steve Barnes
And also I'll bring it up now.
00:28:29.32
Reed Lackey
but but Yeah.
00:28:31.64
Steve Barnes
We don't have much to say about rich this episode. You didn't even put rich in the, in the episode and the characters. So I'll also say rich, you know, you're a great guy. You're funny. Not much to you this week.
00:28:41.94
Reed Lackey
We'll see you next time.
00:28:42.20
Lindsey Dunn
who
00:28:42.24
Steve Barnes
He's ah he's in riches and what I call the no scare zone right now. Like everybody else has had like a little personal private scare, except for rich.
00:28:53.04
Reed Lackey
Mmm.
00:28:53.35
Lindsey Dunn
That's true.
00:28:54.52
Reed Lackey
That's a good point.
00:28:56.34
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. I think that um Rich may be may have his have his moment coming up soon. But okay. We're going to move into Marge. And I'm going to Steve, why don't you lead us off with Marge because I know she's your girlfriend.
00:29:12.76
Steve Barnes
She is. Well, not my girlfriend. She's a little young for me, but you know, a protege, you might say.
00:29:20.36
Steve Barnes
Yeah, she's, a she plans this lunch masterminded by the patty cakes. And she seems like she's going to be friends with Lily again, but we can see with like some like snide looks that the girls give each other behind Lily's back, that there's some shenanigans getting ready to happen involving the aforementioned Tim Flanagan.
00:29:42.92
Steve Barnes
um And I think he's in on this prank too.
00:29:43.48
Lindsey Dunn
Thank
00:29:44.88
Steve Barnes
They're going to Marge and her crew are planning to prank Lily. It's a setup. And what I like about Marge is she has second thoughts and she wants to put an end to this.
00:29:58.40
Steve Barnes
And so she's about to admit to Lily that she's being set up for this prank. And then she's, Ruefully interrupted by the spirit of it. I think for that exact same reason, ah think maybe it interfered in a very timely fashion because it knew that Marge was about to, you know, interfere with some big prank. Perhaps that's just a speculation on my part.
00:30:23.33
Steve Barnes
but we're we're seeing a few different sides of Marge here. She wants to be friends with Lily, but she also wants to be friends with Patty, Patty cakes, I should say.
00:30:34.01
Steve Barnes
um So she's on board with this whole like Lily prank, but then she kind of goes against it and she's like she's about to like admit it. So yeah, we're, I'm kind of like, you know, got some whiplash with Marge's episode.
00:30:48.65
Steve Barnes
um She has our big scare scene, which of course, I mean, that stuck in my mind even more so than this, than the indigenous ending.
00:30:58.91
Steve Barnes
But I think that's the whole long and short of what I got from Marge here. Lindsey is, did I do it okay?
00:31:04.75
Lindsey Dunn
ah Yeah, you did all right. You did all right.
00:31:06.47
Steve Barnes
Yay. Hey, I did okay, Reed.
00:31:08.52
Reed Lackey
Three stars.
00:31:10.77
Steve Barnes
That's good enough for me.
00:31:12.37
Lindsey Dunn
i I noticed she was really grossed out at this at this school video.
00:31:17.26
Steve Barnes
Oh, yeah.
00:31:17.85
Lindsey Dunn
thought that was interesting. that i've Out of everybody in the class, she was the one that had that strongest reaction.
00:31:19.31
Reed Lackey
Well, and i think that's I think that's what attracted, so so i ah and i'm I'm not gonna come hard or certainly like you know die or even get injured on this hill, but I actually think, Steve, that it wasn't necessarily that she was targeted by it because of the um moment she was about to intervene.
00:31:23.97
Lindsey Dunn
ahead, Rae.
00:31:41.47
Lindsey Dunn
Mm.
00:31:44.54
Reed Lackey
but rather what Lindsey just mentioned about her her repulsion at the video. Because if you'll notice, the video was of these snails that get ah you know a parasitic ah you know infection, and then that infection makes their body colorful and and pulsing, which attracts predators so that they can...
00:32:04.28
Reed Lackey
ah you know, infect other predators. Well, when she, when it manifests for her, it makes her eyes go the same way that those snails eyes went.
00:32:14.33
Steve Barnes
Right.
00:32:14.45
Reed Lackey
And so, so my interpretation of that was kind of like blood in the water for a shark, like her repulsion at that video sort of, you know, sort of ah put her on its radar where it's like, Ooh, she's already kind of
00:32:23.86
Steve Barnes
Oh.
00:32:29.22
Reed Lackey
vulnerable. She's already kind of compromised. I've got, I've got a fear outlet that I can immediately tap into.
00:32:31.73
Steve Barnes
OK.
00:32:35.51
Reed Lackey
And, and that's kind of how I interpreted the scene. I would, again, I'm not going to die on that Hill. I think it could be both might be either, or, but that's just a, that was my interpretation of that scene. Um, I did think I got to shout out Matilda Lawler's performance in general because I felt like her emotionality when she was conflicted about whether or not to tell Lily felt very real, felt very believable.
00:32:57.04
Reed Lackey
I don't always feel that way about these kids, even performances that I generally like, but I felt like that moment from her was um was pretty good, was pretty strong. um so So yeah, I yeah ah really liked Marge getting, Marge didn't like her presence in this episode, but I really liked her presence in this episode.
00:33:16.66
Lindsey Dunn
i I wonder too, if, you know, Marge is really just a tool for Pennywise to be able to get Lily again, because Lily is the one that's, you know, of course I can't say Marge wasn't impacted.
00:33:26.85
Reed Lackey
Yeah.
00:33:27.59
Steve Barnes
Sure.
00:33:30.85
Lindsey Dunn
She was impacted.
00:33:31.50
Reed Lackey
sure
00:33:32.29
Lindsey Dunn
She got, what happens to her is pretty terrible, but I do wonder now what's going to happen.
00:33:35.54
Reed Lackey
yeah
00:33:38.24
Lindsey Dunn
Is she going to continue to be a good friend to Lily by, by telling the people it wasn't her fault or will she find herself in the same situation Lily did where the adults don't believe anything she says and thinks she's just covering for her friend Lily so that she doesn't have to go back.
00:33:53.88
Reed Lackey
Right?
00:33:58.40
Lindsey Dunn
um So I, I'm really hoping that this doesn't mean, although I suspect it does, that the, that the future does not look good for Lily.
00:34:08.90
Reed Lackey
Yeah.
00:34:08.96
Lindsey Dunn
ah have a feeling it's not going to end well for her. So
00:34:14.03
Steve Barnes
Another prediction.
00:34:14.33
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
00:34:14.87
Steve Barnes
Solid one from Lindsey.
00:34:15.79
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
00:34:16.75
Reed Lackey
Mm-hmm.
00:34:19.12
Lindsey Dunn
Okay. So we're going to move into Lily.
00:34:22.07
Steve Barnes
Yep.
00:34:22.99
Lindsey Dunn
Something I noticed about her is she's undergoing a pretty big personality shift in episode one and lot of two, she seems to be overwhelmed with sadness, but as times have gone on, she is, as she's sort of taking a page from Ronnie's book and standing up for herself and losing her temper. She really lost her temper in the police office of Chief Bowers.
00:34:48.08
Reed Lackey
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:34:48.28
Lindsey Dunn
And i was kind of surprised. ah This is an aside. this is So that's one thought, that she's sort of undergoing a personality shift. The other is that shes that I was surprised she seemed so interested.
00:35:04.11
Lindsey Dunn
This whole thing about her being excited about this boy's attention did seem a little a little plot.
00:35:08.92
Steve Barnes
ah Right. Yeah.
00:35:11.50
Lindsey Dunn
like plot driven, that didn't read as authentic, because she doesn't strike me as boy crazy or the or the type that's even interested in boys.
00:35:12.88
Steve Barnes
yeah
00:35:21.30
Lindsey Dunn
she's She's been someone with more important things on her mind. So that didn't exactly work for me, except for to get her believing this prank that they were trying to pull on her.
00:35:34.55
Steve Barnes
No, ten v That's that's a really astute because I didn't even clock that.
00:35:36.10
Reed Lackey
Completely agree.
00:35:39.17
Steve Barnes
And now that you mention it, it's like so blatant. I'm sad I missed it. Because, yeah, it seems it does seem like an obvious plot turner and not really true to her character.
00:35:51.46
Reed Lackey
The only inch of grace that I will give it is she is a character who has craved acceptance and belonging for so long that I could see...
00:36:00.72
Steve Barnes
Yeah. Yeah.
00:36:03.83
Reed Lackey
it's i do think...
00:36:04.87
Lindsey Dunn
Thank
00:36:06.35
Reed Lackey
ah number First off, I completely agree with um with Lindsey's take. I think that it was too much of a character shift too fast. But I can sit with that attraction of like, oh, somebody likes me, unrelated to all of this other stuff that's going on.
00:36:24.29
Reed Lackey
I could see her being, you know, attracted to that and drawn to that. um I just think it was is probably handled a bit in a way that was more plot heavy than really true to the character.
00:36:35.28
Reed Lackey
But yeah. you know They probably could have layered it out a little bit differently that would have made the moment a little bit more believable. like Maybe she's initially skeptical. Are you sure? And then a second interaction might go, oh, maybe.
00:36:44.67
Steve Barnes
Sure. Yeah.
00:36:47.80
Reed Lackey
you know ah But instead, it all happens right there um you know because that's what the story needs to happen. So, yeah.
00:36:56.38
Lindsey Dunn
think she's more, i do think it's more interesting if she's not just sad all the time.
00:36:56.66
Steve Barnes
yeah
00:37:00.93
Lindsey Dunn
So I like the fact, I wasn't saying it was a bad thing that she's doing this personality shift because she's friends with Ronnie.
00:37:04.56
Reed Lackey
Sure.
00:37:07.66
Lindsey Dunn
She's seeing, um she's seeing Ronnie. um The reason things happened, ended up they did is she wasn't standing up for her friend and she knows that now. So she's trying to correct that.
00:37:20.02
Lindsey Dunn
by speaking out in the cop's office.
00:37:20.13
Reed Lackey
Yeah.
00:37:21.74
Lindsey Dunn
I thought that part was believable. It was only the boy thing that I that i thought wasn't, um that I thought was a little unbelievable, except for just wanting attention.
00:37:25.40
Reed Lackey
Yeah.
00:37:31.45
Lindsey Dunn
But yeah, go ahead, Steve.
00:37:32.89
Reed Lackey
I agree.
00:37:34.05
Steve Barnes
Yeah, I was going to say, like, i I kind of like got on board with you, like in real time there, because that's not something that I noticed during the episode as unusual. So when you pointed it out as unusual, I kind of jumped on it. So like, you know, that was my real time reaction there, agreeing with you. And i I still do think, I mean, still think it's a strong point. It is a little out of character, but it's also in character for 13 year olds to be gaga about boys or girls.
00:38:01.87
Steve Barnes
um I want to say something positive about Lily, though, because like she is almost like the de facto leader of the group at this point.
00:38:02.39
Reed Lackey
Mm-hmm.
00:38:09.40
Steve Barnes
um She's the one that leads the case in the police station, at least until Rich tries to interrupt her. Lily is the one doing most of the talking. um She is the one that kind of clocks that It is likes to scare them as like predator and prey.
00:38:27.47
Steve Barnes
And, you know, she notices that that possibility. And then she also, once again, just like last episode, she doesn't come to the group with an idea like half assed.
00:38:39.40
Steve Barnes
She comes to ah an idea like with, you know, items at hand, like she had been thinking about bringing this volume and she had like been contemplating this and giving this out to the kids.
00:38:51.96
Steve Barnes
Just like last time, like she didn't just tell Ronnie, sorry. She was like, I'm sorry. And I have a camera and we're going to get your dad out of jail. So once again, Lily is kind of, you know, almost like a lead has some leadership qualities.
00:39:06.03
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm. So let's move on to Ingrid. I don't know if we, I just wanted to give room to talk about her since she's ah person of interest.
00:39:13.31
Steve Barnes
A wee bit, yeah.
00:39:16.56
Steve Barnes
She, is she real? This is what I'm starting to wonder.
00:39:20.86
Lindsey Dunn
Okay.
00:39:20.95
Steve Barnes
Like, I used to think that she was like a manifestation of it.
00:39:20.96
Reed Lackey
Yeah.
00:39:24.00
Steve Barnes
And she's like, you know, like, Oh no. But now I'm almost like, is she a guardian angel? It's like, because she's like given this good advice to Lily.
00:39:31.24
Reed Lackey
It
00:39:34.37
Steve Barnes
um She doesn't like, she's not like telling Lily what to do, but she's encouraging her to hang out with her friends, encouraging her to, to keep digging and look up stuff.
00:39:45.75
Steve Barnes
I don't know. She, I can't figure her out at this point. Last week, I thought she was a demon. This week, I think she's an angel. What are you guys thinking?
00:39:54.45
Reed Lackey
She, so yeah, i I think you might be onto to something.
00:39:54.57
Steve Barnes
Reed, how about you?
00:39:58.19
Reed Lackey
it it it is standing out to me even only two moments in that nobody interacts with her but Lily.
00:40:05.65
Steve Barnes
Right.
00:40:05.77
Reed Lackey
um
00:40:05.92
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm.
00:40:06.16
Steve Barnes
Yes.
00:40:06.40
Reed Lackey
so So, you know, this theory will go completely away if in the next couple of episodes we see her in a collective scene where other people are engaging with her. um But the fact that she has only been present with Lily and only interacted with Lily, I wondered the same thing.
00:40:21.70
Steve Barnes
Right.
00:40:22.97
Reed Lackey
I'm still on the train that I don't totally trust her, that I don't totally that i think she might be a a Trojan horse of sorts by it to basically infiltrate and undermine things.
00:40:36.92
Reed Lackey
For instance, um the I do feel like she does give some advice that appears helpful but nothing that she's actually offered yet has actually progressed them towards their actual goal, um which which also stands out to me.
00:40:48.67
Steve Barnes
right
00:40:51.92
Steve Barnes
right.
00:40:54.14
Reed Lackey
So I just, you know, I wonder, it does feel significant that um that that she may not be a real character. If she is a benevolent character, um then I think it is such that we just haven't received enough information to really um understand what her end game is.
00:41:12.10
Reed Lackey
But I'm still on the train that she's... ah She's a a manifestation of it that will reveal itself later.
00:41:19.92
Lindsey Dunn
the doctor in Juniper Hill does mention that she's befriended this housekeeper but it could also it could also be that he just hears Lily say she's befriended a housekeeper and he's like okay but he think he he doesn't need bring he doesn't mean this one in particular so that's that's an interesting theory that she's perhaps just invisible an invisible person that Lily talks to
00:41:26.24
Steve Barnes
That's true. That's true.
00:41:35.96
Reed Lackey
Mm-hmm.
00:41:45.92
Reed Lackey
Yeah. yeah
00:41:47.66
Steve Barnes
We've seen too many movies where that's a thing. You know what I mean?
00:41:50.05
Reed Lackey
Yeah. Yeah.
00:41:51.89
Lindsey Dunn
I see dead people.
00:41:52.12
Reed Lackey
Sixth Sense has, yeah, Sixth Sense completely spoiled us as like, who else is interacting with the person? you know like so yeah.
00:41:57.62
Steve Barnes
Yep. yep
00:41:58.47
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. Okay, let's move on to Will and Reed. Would you like to lead us off for a Will?
00:42:04.87
Reed Lackey
um so So yes, and if I may, my feelings about Will the directly tie into my feelings about Leroy. um so So I will just mention that I love the character of Will. I love Blake Cameron James. he's I think he's really...
00:42:21.62
Reed Lackey
doing a really good job. He's immediately endearing. Like, whenever the kid's on screen, I just like the kid. um And I feel like he does a really good job of conveying... a You heard me mention this with ah with the character of Marge as well, but like...
00:42:38.06
Reed Lackey
Characters, it's really, really tough, even for adults as actors, to convey believable emotion. And I feel like Will does a really good job of feeling scared without acting scared.
00:42:50.76
Reed Lackey
um So you get the sense that he's really terrified without overacting it. um and And of course, the moment that his dad went to the the car for the... bay I was like, dunk don't do that.
00:43:02.24
Reed Lackey
No.
00:43:02.71
Steve Barnes
yep
00:43:03.10
Reed Lackey
I was immediately like, do not leave this poor kid. i was like, and you you could see it coming five miles away.
00:43:07.31
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm.
00:43:09.38
Reed Lackey
um ah so so I will spare, because he's next in the in in the sequence, I will spare my thoughts specifically around Leroy.
00:43:09.70
Steve Barnes
yes
00:43:19.68
Reed Lackey
ah But yeah, I really felt like uh, the Easter egg that you mentioned, Steve, like will sort of coming into his own connecting to the greater Hamlin legacy as it pertains to the mythology of it.
00:43:32.40
Reed Lackey
Um, I feel like they're doing a really good job there. Um, but he's just also just a really likable kid. He's just a great kid.
00:43:39.89
Lindsey Dunn
Steve, what do you think?
00:43:42.30
Steve Barnes
oh I disagree a little bit about um in this particular episode, because I usually like Will.
00:43:47.03
Reed Lackey
Hmm.
00:43:48.20
Steve Barnes
He's pretty much my favorite of the gang. But I wasn't loving his actor's performance this week. um I didn't think he did a very good job of being scared personally.
00:44:00.37
Steve Barnes
um I don't think he did a bad job.
00:44:00.69
Reed Lackey
It
00:44:02.36
Steve Barnes
But at the same time, I wasn't blown away. um like I said earlier that I thought that there was some great kid acting and some poor kid acting. And I'll tell you right now, Marge knocked it out of the park.
00:44:14.69
Steve Barnes
And in my opinion, you know, will maybe got to first base because he got four balls. You know, that's that's pretty much all I can give him.
00:44:22.31
Reed Lackey
yeah ah got bunted in.
00:44:23.82
Lindsey Dunn
Thank you.
00:44:25.27
Steve Barnes
um But yeah, he got he got double scares this episode. That's kind of unusual like for a character to get like two scares in one episode. But he got two balloons, two red balloons, if you want to call them Easter eggs.
00:44:39.81
Steve Barnes
um And I thought it was interesting, too, that... He confides his fears to Charlotte pretty openly. I mean, she kind of has to like wiggle it out a little bit, but you know, he tells his mom about his problems, but he doesn't want to tell his dad.
00:44:56.60
Steve Barnes
He avoids telling his dad these things. And it's his mom that is still working to bridge the gap between her two guys here. And, you know, even will was kind of bored fishing. He wasn't really that into that either.
00:45:11.25
Steve Barnes
So, you know, i um just like you, Reed, also have like Will and Leroy connected notes because I see Will more connected to his mom than to his dad.
00:45:25.55
Reed Lackey
Yeah.
00:45:28.08
Lindsey Dunn
Well, I think I'm going to disagree with you, Steve. um
00:45:32.21
Steve Barnes
Okay, for the first time ever.
00:45:34.48
Reed Lackey
no
00:45:36.71
Lindsey Dunn
I thought, I thought he, I thought he did ah a great job this episode.
00:45:36.96
Reed Lackey
It's a precedent.
00:45:40.31
Lindsey Dunn
um As far as conveying emotions, it wasn't just fear, but he also has to express this slight boredom at,
00:45:51.68
Lindsey Dunn
being on this fishing trip with his dad and at the same time sort of enjoying it.
00:45:54.11
Steve Barnes
Okay.
00:45:57.75
Lindsey Dunn
He ends up, his dad makes him laugh when he starts picking on him about Veronica, but, Ronnie, but then, um so it's like, okay, was he just enjoying time with his dad or is he sort of embarrassed about his feelings about Ronnie? So I felt like that was, it was in that nice gray area of tween boy who's kind of awkward.
00:46:19.68
Lindsey Dunn
um And yeah, I thought, he did a good job with his scare scene. um The one thing I thought was interesting about him isn't really a character thing, but it's more of he mentions that that he saw his dad, and it's like that picture of when you went down in a plane.
00:46:42.33
Lindsey Dunn
That kind threw me back because I thought, why would they Why would anyone have a picture of that? you know That doesn't seem like the kind of thing yeah that you preserve in a photo family photo album.
00:46:50.54
Steve Barnes
Right.
00:46:54.14
Lindsey Dunn
um And this has become a terrible fear of his. So I wondered where he was seeing this picture.
00:47:00.94
Steve Barnes
Yeah. Maybe, ah maybe I misunderstood because I thought that he was, he had a bad dream about his dad going down and he had this scary image in his head of it. I didn't catch that.
00:47:10.65
Reed Lackey
That's what I thought.
00:47:11.29
Steve Barnes
It was a picture, but if that's the case, then yeah, they had some really, really like gung ho journalists out there, I guess that day.
00:47:19.39
Reed Lackey
Sophisticated technology to be able to catch that image. ah Like, yeah, totally, totally.
00:47:27.00
Lindsey Dunn
Maybe, yeah, maybe he meant a picture in his mind, but yeah, he does the the phrase is like that picture of when you went down in a plane. And we remember last week when Dick Halloran sees that image of somebody with like their eye shot open.
00:47:35.47
Reed Lackey
Yeah.
00:47:43.94
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm.
00:47:44.77
Lindsey Dunn
I guess that was Leroy. um So yeah, it was, I was just trying to figure out where this, where this picture came in
00:47:48.52
Steve Barnes
Oh, okay.
00:47:53.37
Lindsey Dunn
If I could see maybe the military took pictures when they found him, but I wouldn't think he would show that to his kid.
00:47:54.16
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
00:47:58.99
Steve Barnes
Yes.
00:48:02.63
Steve Barnes
No.
00:48:03.77
Lindsey Dunn
So um yeah. the ah And I liked his interactions with his mom too. But the only other thing I'll say is when he starts talking to his, um friends about adrenaline and cortisol.
00:48:17.10
Lindsey Dunn
That also made me take a step back because I thought this seems very advanced talk for a middle school kid.
00:48:17.52
Steve Barnes
here
00:48:22.55
Lindsey Dunn
I don't think I became aware of the term cortisol until a couple of years ago, but apparently it was discovered in 1937. So I suppose, I suppose, well,
00:48:31.32
Steve Barnes
Yeah. He reads science books for fun. i mean, totally makes sense to me actually.
00:48:35.63
Reed Lackey
yeah
00:48:38.60
Steve Barnes
And I thought it was pretty astute. Again, I didn't question that either. Maybe I should.
00:48:43.95
Reed Lackey
Mm-hmm.
00:48:46.98
Lindsey Dunn
Okay, well then we can move right in into Leroy. ah So do you want to do you want to lead off for that, Steve?
00:48:55.52
Steve Barnes
Sure. Yeah. his His demeanor is getting testier and testier as the series goes on. He was a really testy fellow this week um to Charlotte about her activism.
00:49:07.62
Steve Barnes
um A little bit with Will at first, too, being kind of short the dinner table. um he kind of redeems himself as the episode progresses because, you know, he's, he believes his son will.
00:49:21.04
Steve Barnes
And he, when he hears that, like, will got scared, he runs to his rescue and runs outside and demands answers from the, the air, the ether or whatever.
00:49:32.89
Steve Barnes
But he was really testy with Halloran as well. Like it's almost like he was going to beat him up a couple of times. So yeah, i I'm seeing his his aggression a lot more. I think they're playing on that a bit more.
00:49:47.85
Steve Barnes
um But I do like the fact that he believes Will, and I think a very interesting point, the last thing I really want to say about him, is that he's allowed to see the red balloons.
00:49:59.66
Steve Barnes
And that's pretty unusual. Usually the adults can't see the balloons, and the adults can't see this kind of stuff. But it is letting Leroy see those balloons. So it's almost like a taunt in a way.
00:50:14.68
Lindsey Dunn
do you want to go ahead, Reed?
00:50:14.84
Reed Lackey
Yeah. i can Yeah, I can jump in. ah Steve, you touched on it. One of my biggest things for both Leroy and Charlotte, who we'll get to in a second, is it is not insignificant that when they they see their child afraid, they are not dismissive.
00:50:32.80
Reed Lackey
And it is that is significant.
00:50:32.98
Steve Barnes
Yes.
00:50:36.01
Reed Lackey
It's it's significant in in the work of Stephen King. It's significant in the horror genre writ large that... when they When they see this, their immediate impulse is not in their own way. They they they each respond to it differently. I'll focus on Leroy since that's who we're talking about right now.
00:50:54.47
Reed Lackey
His immediate response is to go and confront Dick about this, to be like, okay.
00:50:59.20
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
00:51:00.98
Reed Lackey
and And yes, you could say that part of that is because he also is a bit attuned to knowing they're looking for something kind of strange. Yeah. And i can i can sympathize with like, okay, there is the dot connecting.
00:51:15.15
Reed Lackey
him knowing the military is trying to examine something, but also ah recognizing, you know, that, that, that his son has experienced something weird. um But yeah, I mean, i just, I so loved that when Will tells him what happened, he's, his response was not, oh, you're just, you're, you're just overexcited or, you know, we just need to figure out a way to calm you down.
00:51:39.48
Reed Lackey
Instead, his thing is like, what is going on? and he immediately sort of ah believes him. And again, Charlotte had, if not the identical response, a very similar response ah to their child.
00:51:50.65
Reed Lackey
And it was just refreshing to see that, to see, you know, a parent and in a situation like this, where you're going to be saturated by adults who are not going to believe them to be like, well, the Hanlons will. And I think that's going to be significant to the the overall arc of this season. But loved, loved that response from Leroy.
00:52:12.25
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah, it's it's like for him, father mode has been activated.
00:52:16.68
Steve Barnes
Yep.
00:52:16.84
Lindsey Dunn
and And he just has this instinct to protect his child.
00:52:16.85
Reed Lackey
Yeah.
00:52:17.15
Steve Barnes
ye
00:52:21.59
Lindsey Dunn
And I think that it does strike us as significant because we got the sense when we first see them interact that this father and son have a hard time communicating and they maybe aren't always on the same page.
00:52:36.91
Lindsey Dunn
So, um yeah, I feel like it's out of the norm. for Leroy to sort of give this much attention to maybe what Will's saying or doing. But now that he's gotten closer to Dick Halloran, he's having to come to terms that there are things out there beyond his comprehension.
00:52:48.15
Reed Lackey
Yep.
00:52:52.48
Lindsey Dunn
And if he wants a hope of protecting his child, he needs to seek help. However, he finds a Halloran that isn't as forthcoming with advice or help as he would like.
00:53:04.37
Lindsey Dunn
I did find it super compelling when he grabs Dick's arm and there's this electric charge between the two of them that really made me take notice of what is going on between these two guys.
00:53:11.85
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm.
00:53:17.32
Lindsey Dunn
Like it could be that it's representing that when he did that, Dick Halloran felt something, but it was almost also like Leroy felt something.
00:53:27.36
Reed Lackey
Yeah. right.
00:53:27.60
Lindsey Dunn
And cause these two seem to have a connection that,
00:53:30.78
Reed Lackey
yeah
00:53:32.14
Lindsey Dunn
He can, you know, Leroy's experience, what it feels like when Dick Halloran is in his in his head. So when he grabs his arm, I wondered if Dick Halloran knows, okay, this is, this increases our connection. And I know this guy doesn't want me in his head.
00:53:48.04
Lindsey Dunn
So it was just, yeah. What did you guys think of that moment between them?
00:53:54.08
Steve Barnes
They're not going to be friends.
00:53:54.20
Reed Lackey
right Mm-mm. No.
00:53:57.87
Lindsey Dunn
They're not what, Steve?
00:53:59.26
Steve Barnes
They're not going to be friends. Like they work together. They might work well together, but there's definitely a vibe between these two guys at dinner. And now we're like, they're not exactly like buddy, buddy and like babbling on each other.
00:54:08.05
Reed Lackey
Mm-mm.
00:54:12.68
Reed Lackey
But I do think they will become partners in bringing in whatever this iteration, this cycle, in in either putting it to bed and putting it to sleep for its next cycle.
00:54:18.60
Steve Barnes
Sure.
00:54:25.16
Reed Lackey
We we already know, and you guys touched on this in an earlier episode, that like... and Okay, like, because we know this predates the actual novel It, they do not ultimately, whatever happens, they do not ultimately destroy the entity It in this iterative cycle.
00:54:38.81
Steve Barnes
Right. Mm-hmm.
00:54:41.03
Reed Lackey
But I do feel that ah Leroy and Dick will become even perhaps uneasy allies in that fight.
00:54:49.03
Steve Barnes
yes
00:54:49.90
Reed Lackey
and And to Lindsey's question, how I read that moment... is I did note on the porch that Dick told him, he's like, you are not somebody I want to mess with, like just period. You're just not somebody I want to mess with.
00:55:03.67
Reed Lackey
So I did read that moment as him, you know, when they make a physical connection, Dick, because of The Shining, probably, you know, can't help that, well, now I see it, you know, think of um ah the the his name's escaping me, but the main character of the dead zone, it's like physical contact can kind of,
00:55:23.12
Reed Lackey
exert a psychic connection between two people, even when one didn't otherwise exist. So that's kind of how I read that moment is that, yeah, when Leroy grabs his arm, it forces a connection that Dick is already very uneasy about because he doesn't want to, you know, get on Leroy's bad side.
00:55:41.84
Reed Lackey
um There may be more to it, but that's my read.
00:55:44.94
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:55:45.73
Steve Barnes
i'm going to put an exclamation point on what you said about uneasy allies. I really like that concept.
00:55:49.77
Reed Lackey
Mm-hmm.
00:55:51.25
Steve Barnes
I like that better than them, like, you know, two good buddies going off to war. I like the uneasy allies a lot better where they have to like learn to find common ground and may not find it, but they still have to be allies.
00:55:55.37
Reed Lackey
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:56:03.07
Reed Lackey
Right. Right.
00:56:04.03
Steve Barnes
um And I wanted to point out too that like when Will says that somebody's outside the house looking in Leroy's first thing is to blame Charlotte.
00:56:14.33
Lindsey Dunn
a
00:56:14.39
Steve Barnes
um
00:56:14.77
Reed Lackey
Mm-hmm.
00:56:15.04
Steve Barnes
So that just kind of adds to my like, you know, dislike of Leroy this episode.
00:56:21.47
Reed Lackey
Mm-hmm.
00:56:22.35
Lindsey Dunn
I do think that, speaking of the thing about friends, I don't think either one of these guys actually have friends.
00:56:30.57
Reed Lackey
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:56:30.72
Lindsey Dunn
I mean, we see that Dick Halloran has these men that he pals around with, but i I get the feeling he stays to himself most of the time.
00:56:31.03
Steve Barnes
Oh, good point.
00:56:40.85
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm
00:56:41.88
Lindsey Dunn
So, and, and Leroy has his one, his one friend in Polly Russo. ah But
00:56:49.01
Steve Barnes
He's a rat this week
00:56:52.10
Lindsey Dunn
I feel like these two don't let that many people in. So any, any time you try to, you know, Leroy, Leroy got to the Caloran because he lost his temper at him.
00:57:04.93
Lindsey Dunn
If you lose your temper, you care.
00:57:05.35
Reed Lackey
Mm-hmm.
00:57:07.20
Lindsey Dunn
So these guys are starting to form something. i don't I'm not saying that they're going to go fishing. They're not going to go fishing together. But they are starting to form an understanding that I like. Moving on to him and Charlotte.
00:57:19.57
Lindsey Dunn
um And then we're going to talk about Charlotte. But I did think that was that was the least part I liked about him. Is that his relationship. He's getting he's getting closer to Will. Trying to understand him.
00:57:32.52
Lindsey Dunn
But yeah. The things he says to Charlotte this episode are just. Like what I'm doing here is too important. Don't stir the pot. And then, yeah, I did not like when his first thought is to blame Charlotte for the people watching because it it really has nothing to do with that.
00:57:46.72
Reed Lackey
Mm-hmm.
00:57:49.34
Lindsey Dunn
Leroy doesn't know that, but hey, you know, you're supposed to work with your spouse, not against them when things go south.
00:57:57.40
Reed Lackey
Mm-hmm.
00:57:58.53
Steve Barnes
I couldn't help but notice when they were talking in the kitchen and they were disagreeing with each other.
00:57:58.53
Reed Lackey
Agreed.
00:58:03.37
Steve Barnes
um Charlotte just eventually like, um it like colded them off with just a ah a blatant, like nonchalant, like easy lie, like conversation over, I guess.
00:58:14.22
Reed Lackey
Mm-hmm.
00:58:16.43
Steve Barnes
And that's how they ended that whole discussion.
00:58:16.41
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
00:58:18.39
Steve Barnes
So the vibes are not good in the Panlin household this week anyway.
00:58:23.18
Reed Lackey
Yeah.
00:58:23.64
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm.
00:58:24.90
Reed Lackey
and I think, and maybe this could act as a kind of a transition to Charlotte, I think her conversation um with, um ah is it Rose?
00:58:36.12
Reed Lackey
Who's the, whos yeah, ah her conversation with Rose
00:58:37.04
Lindsey Dunn
Rose, yep.
00:58:40.64
Reed Lackey
about like how Leroy doesn't question anything and she questions everything, I think that does make their you know their marriage, there you know their movement forward, like that is probably the tension
00:58:45.87
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm.
00:58:52.03
Steve Barnes
oh
00:58:57.30
Reed Lackey
that is always maybe what attracts them to each other as people and also what creates central conflicts between them in how to navigate certain situations is, you know, ah Leroy is very decisive and he's very like, no, I've got, you know, this is what has to be done and everybody just needs to do what I say because that's his mode.
00:59:02.27
Steve Barnes
Yin and Yang.
00:59:19.54
Reed Lackey
Whereas her mode is a lot more curious and her mode is a lot more inquisitive. And she feels empowered clearly by what she, ah you know, kind of the the the leverage that she used to get in to to speak to Grogan, you know, like that kind of, ah you know, name dropping of like, hey, you know, this is the kind of power I have if you, you know, if I get on a telephone, know,
00:59:46.73
Reed Lackey
So she she feels an autonomous like an autonomous individual, not easily intimidated.
00:59:50.14
Steve Barnes
Thank you.
00:59:52.86
Reed Lackey
um But I think why I found that interesting, even though I could not agree more, it is a horrible look for Leroy. um I found it interesting because I did feel like that's the dynamic that both...
01:00:05.14
Reed Lackey
puts their marriage at risk and probably makes it work is that push and pull and that tension with some mutual respect, but some absolutely polar opposite ways of approaching and trying to solve a problem.
01:00:18.12
Reed Lackey
So yeah, that's my thoughts on Charlotte.
01:00:21.13
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah, I think we talked about that in the second episode, that they actually have a pretty good marriage, and we liked their interaction at dinner in that episode when they were kind of finishing other sentence each other's sentences, showing a united front in front of their son.
01:00:29.25
Reed Lackey
Mm-hmm.
01:00:35.31
Lindsey Dunn
ah But, you know, Leroy, you need to keep doing that. You need to keep doing that.
01:00:38.70
Steve Barnes
I know.
01:00:39.51
Lindsey Dunn
you know to to when he gets When he gets, like mike most of us, I think when he gets jarred, when he gets scared,
01:00:39.70
Reed Lackey
Right. Mm-hmm.
01:00:40.62
Steve Barnes
Consistency is key.
01:00:40.70
Reed Lackey
Mm-hmm.
01:00:47.89
Lindsey Dunn
he makes some bad decisions. So...
01:00:52.14
Steve Barnes
But he never gets scared, though. Wait, what are you talking about?
01:00:54.94
Lindsey Dunn
That's true!
01:00:56.50
Reed Lackey
Well, I think he never gets scared for himself, but I think it's different recognizing peril at the people you for the people you love. And I think that's that's a different sort of thing, that it's like it's not necessarily fear, which is ah necessarily a self-preservation instinct, but more this recognition. And honestly, that again, the the half an inch of grace I will give to his reaction to Charlotte is this not idea of...
01:01:25.09
Reed Lackey
He shouldn't have name-dropped what I'm doing is too important. that's That's the wrong language to try to use to win an argument. But I think what's really going on for him at that moment is he has seen what rattled his son, and he knows what Dick Halloran is at least tangentially up to, and he's kind of like, okay, like we we just need to do our best to kind of just keep our heads down and lay low because it might be more than just you know racist individuals that we have to worry about in in in the scheme of this. That's a little bit what I picked up on.
01:01:57.09
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah, he could be too worried if she gets arrested, then who's going to watch after, you know, Will while he is at work.
01:02:07.71
Lindsey Dunn
So.
01:02:08.00
Reed Lackey
Yeah.
01:02:08.11
Steve Barnes
arrested again. She's been arrested before.
01:02:10.38
Reed Lackey
Correct.
01:02:10.87
Steve Barnes
So, you know, and exactly.
01:02:11.02
Reed Lackey
Yeah. She's a part of the movement. Yeah. Yeah.
01:02:14.88
Lindsey Dunn
ah So she's Charlotte's been activated. It's not about the Paul Bunyan statue, Steve. ah We get, she's, we find out she's been arrested before in Shreveport, Louisiana, which we sort of knew.
01:02:23.44
Steve Barnes
It's Hank Rogan. Yeah.
01:02:30.02
Lindsey Dunn
There's loosely referenced trouble in Shreveport, but she was arrested and she's trying to get those wheels of justice spinning for Hank.
01:02:38.12
Steve Barnes
Exactly.
01:02:39.59
Lindsey Dunn
I did, I did ah think it was funny that she gets a letter of permission from his family And I wondered, is that really how it works? You bring in a letter of permission, like a permission slip, and that gets the door.
01:02:52.52
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm.
01:02:52.94
Steve Barnes
I mean, whatever loophole you got to jump through, you jump through it. You know, when you get want to get something done and yeah, she is getting things done this week.
01:02:56.51
Reed Lackey
Right.
01:03:00.82
Steve Barnes
um Because yeah, you said that she's, she's been activated. I wrote down that, that she's on the move this week, looking for answers and justice. as well
01:03:09.47
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm.
01:03:09.73
Steve Barnes
That was my take on Charlotte. um Because, yeah, she's moved around everywhere. file She filed a police report immediately after Will told her what happened in the graveyard. That's the first thing she does is go and file a police report for it.
01:03:23.51
Steve Barnes
um And then she later threatens the police with those phone calls you referenced there. um So, yeah, she's definitely put on a strong hat this week.
01:03:33.41
Lindsey Dunn
Anything you want to add else about Charlotte Reed?
01:03:36.65
Reed Lackey
ah No, no, no. I think I've said i think i of some my piece. I do love ah Taylor Page as a performer. I think she's wonderful.
01:03:41.66
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm.
01:03:42.13
Reed Lackey
um Like, I mean, pretty much the whole Hanlon family, they they're just immediately endearing. um And so I root for her automatically. um I never get the feeling, for even when she's kind of headfirst into danger, I never get the feeling of like, oh, don't be stupid. Like, I'm always like, get it.
01:04:00.51
Reed Lackey
Like, go go do your thing, you know? um And I think that speaks a little bit to Paige's performance, being able to, um you know, to to instill that confidence, that even though she knows the dangers are real, um she feels either the necessity or the empowerment to say, like, no, this is this is the fight, so this is where we're going to go, um which I really i really like. yeah.
01:04:25.14
Steve Barnes
One of my favorite Charlotte quotes this episode, or probably my favorite Charlotte quote is when Leroy tells her to don't make trouble. She says, there's trouble everywhere, Leroy.
01:04:34.22
Reed Lackey
Yeah.
01:04:35.05
Steve Barnes
So yeah, face facts, buddy.
01:04:35.15
Lindsey Dunn
and
01:04:37.21
Reed Lackey
That was great.
01:04:38.47
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. So the next couple of people I had was Chief Bowers and Hank Grogan. i didn't really have much to say about Chief Bowers about this episode, really. We saw him interact some with share Charlotte.
01:04:53.81
Lindsey Dunn
um Them go to toe to toe. Did you guys have anything to say about him really?
01:05:00.58
Steve Barnes
I kind of do. um
01:05:01.75
Lindsey Dunn
Go ahead.
01:05:02.22
Steve Barnes
yeah He's a typical dairy adult who doesn't want to be involved um any more than he has to be. he's He's kind of like me in a way, Lindsey, when you get annoyed with me, when I find like wings of like a ah some sort of theory out there, like based on some tiny shred of evidence, then I'll like jump on it like, oh, it's true. It's kind of what Chief Bowers does here. He finds this little tiny shred that Hank lied where he was going to be and he found a pack of cigarettes.
01:05:32.49
Steve Barnes
Therefore, Hank is guilty, so I don't want to hear anybody else talk about this case. So like he's pretty much given up on even trying to find another answer. So he's annoyed at anybody who's even bringing it up. He's like, look, the guy is guilty.
01:05:47.53
Steve Barnes
And then hank but in Hank Bower's mind, he is, not Hank Bower's, Chief Bower's mind, like Hank is guilty. And there's nobody, nothing anybody can say to change that. And he's is snide to Charlotte and yeah. Close mouth dude.
01:06:04.38
Lindsey Dunn
So he's a J in the Myers-Briggs. You know, they have like the J and the P.
01:06:07.56
Reed Lackey
Thank you.
01:06:08.54
Lindsey Dunn
The J's like to make a decision and then that's it. We're not discussing it anymore. And the P's want to keep collecting evidence.
01:06:15.28
Steve Barnes
Oh yeah. Totally a J in that case. Yes. He's a J bird all the way.
01:06:22.87
Lindsey Dunn
All right. Well, I guess we'll move into Hank Grogan. So the big secret is out. He was visiting a woman and not just a woman, but a married woman.
01:06:33.82
Lindsey Dunn
Not just a married woman, but a married white woman.
01:06:34.23
Steve Barnes
Hmm. Hmm.
01:06:36.96
Reed Lackey
a
01:06:38.22
Lindsey Dunn
Who do we think it is?
01:06:40.45
Steve Barnes
Oh, that's a good question.
01:06:40.43
Lindsey Dunn
is this editing is it anyone we know?
01:06:42.93
Steve Barnes
I have a great guess. I didn't even think about this, but I got it.
01:06:45.00
Lindsey Dunn
Oh boy.
01:06:47.61
Reed Lackey
Go for it.
01:06:47.68
Steve Barnes
Ingrid. He is with Ingrid.
01:06:53.67
Lindsey Dunn
okay it could be a reason to bring Madeline Snow in.
01:06:55.40
Reed Lackey
She went.
01:06:56.38
Steve Barnes
That's for funsies.
01:06:58.51
Reed Lackey
she's she's She's gone from completely fictional, like imaginary character to, oh no, she's she's that kind of trouble.
01:07:04.83
Steve Barnes
She's the married white woman. She's got to be.
01:07:07.06
Lindsey Dunn
Oh, she's married to the butcher.
01:07:07.09
Steve Barnes
um that
01:07:08.59
Lindsey Dunn
She's married to Stan the cleaver. Yeah.
01:07:11.75
Steve Barnes
Well, that's that's my theory, again, based on not much.
01:07:15.61
Reed Lackey
Yeah. No, I don't think we've, ah I don't know that we've met who he's talking about yet.
01:07:17.06
Steve Barnes
But yet.
01:07:21.25
Reed Lackey
And I think she will wind up being either a person of absolute insignificance, like it's just the fact that she is a married white woman,
01:07:29.87
Steve Barnes
ah
01:07:31.09
Reed Lackey
Or she will be a person of tremendous prominence, that it's not just, you know, a random.
01:07:37.67
Steve Barnes
Ah,
01:07:37.89
Reed Lackey
I don't think it's going to be middle of the road. I think she's either going to be somebody for about whom we learn very little, or it's going to be somebody who is really significant to the the mythos that's building up here.
01:07:51.34
Lindsey Dunn
hu
01:07:51.44
Reed Lackey
That's my theory.
01:07:52.35
Steve Barnes
I have some guesses. Lindsey, do you have any guesses? I just caught came up with some, but I'm gonna let you go first.
01:07:58.01
Lindsey Dunn
I mean, I don't i don't really have any guesses. I don't know how many married white women we've met. You know, the only thing I could think of as it is it was is it if it's a wife of us one of the police officers.
01:08:03.11
Reed Lackey
Good point.
01:08:09.03
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
01:08:09.77
Reed Lackey
Hmm.
01:08:10.60
Steve Barnes
Maybe Rich's mom, perhaps? Maybe, um I don't know. i mean, we don't know Lily's mom's status, if she still considers herself married, divorced, widowed, or what.
01:08:20.68
Reed Lackey
Hmm.
01:08:22.56
Steve Barnes
Could be Lily's mom.
01:08:24.11
Lindsey Dunn
She's a widower.
01:08:24.33
Steve Barnes
I really like, I like this, ah the idea, Reed.
01:08:24.75
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
01:08:27.49
Steve Barnes
It really should be somebody, like, shocking and revealing. and It can't just be, like, you know, some random new character of the week.
01:08:32.26
Reed Lackey
Hmm.
01:08:36.27
Reed Lackey
Right. Yeah. Somebody, somebody of significant prominence, but, but we'll see, because they could go the other route. They could go that the, the, the route of his, you know, sort of cultural, you know, in air quotes, transgression is the extent of the significance. So it'll be interesting to see how they play that out.
01:08:53.73
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm.
01:08:54.54
Steve Barnes
I mean, they're really going into um and to racism this week, too, because Hank makes a mention. Like, if if anybody finds out, you know, they're going to hang me on the nearest tree.
01:09:04.93
Steve Barnes
And, you know, who knows what they're going to do to this woman.
01:09:05.28
Reed Lackey
Yeah.
01:09:07.93
Steve Barnes
So and I think this is a valid fear of Hank's. And Charlotte doesn't, you know, tell him, oh, that's not going to happen. um In fact, he's pretty Hank is pretty much dependent on Charlotte alone.
01:09:19.66
Steve Barnes
If it wasn't for Charlotte, he probably would go to Shawshank for life, um just based on this very little crappy evidence.
01:09:24.14
Reed Lackey
Yeah.
01:09:27.65
Steve Barnes
Because nobody's really helping him right now except for her.
01:09:27.66
Reed Lackey
Absolutely.
01:09:32.60
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. are right I guess we're going to see, maybe we'll see him in Shawshank a little bit.
01:09:37.08
Steve Barnes
And we see the bus for sure.
01:09:37.25
Lindsey Dunn
I don't know. Yeah.
01:09:38.36
Steve Barnes
and They keep showing in the trailers and we they keep teasing us with that dang bus.
01:09:40.06
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
01:09:43.66
Reed Lackey
Mm-hmm. Oh, I think he's definitely going to Shawshank. I don't i don't think there's any. And and I think the that it will play, whatever this story is, will continue to play out there, at least partially behind those prison walls.
01:09:55.63
Reed Lackey
I think so.
01:09:56.89
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah, because she, oh.
01:09:56.99
Steve Barnes
and a real fun aside, speaking of Shawshank as well, wasn't the Green Mile also, was the Green Mile Shawshank related?
01:10:04.09
Lindsey Dunn
no
01:10:05.47
Steve Barnes
Okay, well, my boss at work was was guessing that um he was going to like, there was going to be a Green Mile tie-in next week.
01:10:06.00
Reed Lackey
No.
01:10:12.27
Steve Barnes
That was his prediction.
01:10:13.79
Reed Lackey
Oh, interesting.
01:10:14.03
Steve Barnes
I guess he's completely wrong though.
01:10:14.87
Reed Lackey
Interesting. Yeah, the Green Mile ah was was not Shawshank Prison. it was ah It was a different prison, and it was the... I wish I could remember exactly where it was set, but it was the death row of of that specific place. But I'm i'm fairly certain it wasn't Shawshank.
01:10:32.10
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah, I know people were were guessing that he was going to meet John Coffey. But no, no it it' it's it's not.
01:10:37.23
Reed Lackey
Oh, okay. Interesting.
01:10:40.71
Lindsey Dunn
That's not, ah that rumor has already been dismissed as, yeah, not not going to happen because it's a different prison. But I do wonder if he's, because Charlotte mentions that you'll go at least for a little bit, but if the wheels the wheels of justice can be pretty slow to turn.
01:11:00.96
Steve Barnes
couple days.
01:11:04.85
Lindsey Dunn
So it could be that he ends up staying, being there, staying there, not being able to leave.
01:11:06.08
Reed Lackey
Yeah.
01:11:11.38
Lindsey Dunn
That leads to bad things for Ronnie. And if if she follows the history of her character in the books, we know she ends up inside of a drain talking to Beverly Marsh.
01:11:24.12
Steve Barnes
right.
01:11:25.91
Lindsey Dunn
So...
01:11:26.39
Steve Barnes
Yep.
01:11:27.21
Lindsey Dunn
She's another person I don't have high hopes for survival.
01:11:31.19
Steve Barnes
Nor I, nor I.
01:11:31.58
Reed Lackey
Nope. Nope.
01:11:33.06
Lindsey Dunn
Another prediction, yeah.
01:11:33.35
Reed Lackey
I did look, I did, I did, I guess, cheat and and look up um the Green Mile is set in Louisiana in the Cold Mountain Penitentiary.
01:11:44.30
Reed Lackey
So.
01:11:44.89
Steve Barnes
Luther, you're wrong. Okay, move on.
01:11:50.19
Lindsey Dunn
All right, so we're gonna move on to General Shaw. General Shaw, okay, who wants to lead us off? James Remar.
01:12:00.23
Reed Lackey
I mean, i don't have I don't have much for him. I do love James Remar as a performer, but I don't have much for him this ah this particular episode.
01:12:06.46
Lindsey Dunn
Dexter's dad.
01:12:08.20
Steve Barnes
The only thing I can really say, he's really nervous looking out the, looking out the blinds and he seems really nervous about this entrapment that he does for Tanyul, but that's what he sets up.
01:12:08.18
Reed Lackey
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
01:12:17.70
Steve Barnes
He sets up like an entrapment thing where he allows Tanyul to come in and investigate and then snatches them and throws them in the brig.
01:12:26.24
Lindsey Dunn
Mm.
01:12:27.97
Steve Barnes
yeah.
01:12:28.51
Lindsey Dunn
Yep.
01:12:29.48
Steve Barnes
And he's very open handed with Leroy. Like he he's shown Leroy everything that Leroy has asked him to like you showed him like the special quarters.
01:12:36.51
Reed Lackey
I think
01:12:39.06
Steve Barnes
He's bringing him in here to show him the Dick Halloran interrogation. So, yeah, he has he has a lot of lot of faith in Leroy, I guess I should say.
01:12:49.72
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah, I mean, he go ahead, Breed.
01:12:49.95
Reed Lackey
ah think ah Oh, apologies. ah No, i I think for me, General Shaw, I wouldn't call him a bad dude, but he is willing to do bad things.
01:13:00.54
Reed Lackey
And I think that is something like he's already shown, like even to test Leroy's limits, like, okay, I'm going to put people to break in on you and and test you out for this.
01:13:01.51
Steve Barnes
Mm
01:13:12.30
Reed Lackey
And I think with what he does with Daniel and with what he has shown he's capable of writ large, I just think he's a person who is who is willing to moral license himself with the means to an end kind of logic. So while I don't think he's necessarily a villain, I don't totally trust him.
01:13:29.60
Lindsey Dunn
Right. I mean, I had hopes for the guy after last week's episode. I was i was feeling like, okay, he has this in his past, so he's going to know.
01:13:33.86
Steve Barnes
Nah.
01:13:34.54
Reed Lackey
Mm-hmm.
01:13:41.19
Lindsey Dunn
But um he mentions, he says, these people take this seriously. They'll keep that' say keep their vows. And then Leroy asks who they are looking for. Instead of answering, he tortures Taniel.
01:13:54.94
Lindsey Dunn
we got a great scene, but I don't like how this was done. And he should have talked to Rose first.
01:13:59.04
Steve Barnes
yeah
01:14:00.02
Lindsey Dunn
She's not going to be happy with him.
01:14:02.06
Reed Lackey
At all. At all.
01:14:05.70
Lindsey Dunn
Okay. That, that brings us to Rose. Um, what I have to say about Rose, you know, she came to visit Charlotte. She dropped off her new furniture. She suggests that she keeps her loved ones close again, not, not earth shattering advice.
01:14:22.10
Lindsey Dunn
This is what we all do all the time. um We also see she has entrusted her nephew with an important story that he has promised to keep safe. And yeah I thought it was, I guess the only thing i else I have to say about her is it was kind of weird that at the end of her story, her eyeball drops or droops.
01:14:44.44
Lindsey Dunn
And i thought, it does this signify just that this was the end of the memory?
01:14:44.50
Steve Barnes
Oh.
01:14:48.55
Lindsey Dunn
So the and memory's breaking down? Or is it a connection to Marge and the eyeball? Yeah.
01:14:55.00
Reed Lackey
Hmm.
01:14:55.37
Steve Barnes
This was, I would say no, this, this whole thing was engineered by Dick Halloran.
01:15:01.24
Reed Lackey
Mm-hmm.
01:15:01.44
Steve Barnes
So what Dick Halloran did was freeze the moment.
01:15:01.98
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm.
01:15:04.85
Steve Barnes
And it just so happened that she had her hands like this and her eye like this during the freeze to show us the audience that she was frozen. And, you know, Dick coming comes and leers over at that creepy grin too, but it was all his, you know, his domain, so to speak.
01:15:24.04
Reed Lackey
Mm-hmm.
01:15:24.21
Steve Barnes
And I think the creepy grin kind of mirrors Pennywise a little bit, but we're not scared of Dick Halloran necessarily, but he did seem kind of a little scary to, to Daniel, I should say.
01:15:36.86
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm.
01:15:37.78
Reed Lackey
Well, and this might be getting deep into the weeds, so I don't even know if there's any there there, but the fact that Dick Halloran has now breached the sort of Pennywise barrier, as it were, and Pennywise is now aware loosely speaking, of Dick Halloran, it muddies the waters of that landscape as like, okay, well now there's a little bit, if you view it as like, well, the barrier has been breached, so now the the different streams of water are converging.
01:16:07.50
Reed Lackey
So it makes you wonder if if part of Halloran's skittishness now is that every time he uses his ability, if it also makes whatever he's doing with it vulnerable to the intentions of it.
01:16:23.34
Reed Lackey
um and and And that's just a speculation on my part that, again, it's just, you know, Yeah, because that in that moment, it did I ah bought the moment as Halloran is constructing this. It's Halloran's choice.
01:16:37.53
Reed Lackey
But at the same time, I was like, or could you know it be sort of breaking in the way the scene plays out? I don't think that's what's happening, but but it made me think that that kind of thing might be possible.
01:16:44.34
Lindsey Dunn
the
01:16:49.60
Lindsey Dunn
So you're saying that maybe it now has a target on Rose and Daniel.
01:16:55.39
Reed Lackey
Mm-hmm. If I can see that, like, basically when Halloran broke through and and found Pennywise, and Pennywise did that little, like, who are you?
01:17:06.85
Reed Lackey
You know, like, now suddenly Halloran, when he is using The Shining,
01:17:06.94
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm.
01:17:13.95
Reed Lackey
um which they'd ever call it that in this show. I'm just, but we know who Halloran is, but um when he's using his ability, that does that now become a vulnerability, a weak point that Pennywise can exploit because now Halloran is on his radar.
01:17:18.26
Steve Barnes
Mm-hmm.
01:17:30.97
Reed Lackey
So like this little connection, it's like, well, I didn't know you were doing it, but now I see you, you know? And so now you're in my, so you're in my crosshairs.
01:17:41.81
Steve Barnes
That could be scary too. Cause I didn't, I really didn't consider that until you two guys are talking about this now. Cause I seriously saw that as solely Dick Halloran, but if that's the case and your speculation is correct, then, Oh, where'd it go?
01:18:00.52
Reed Lackey
yeah
01:18:01.19
Steve Barnes
My good thought just went away.
01:18:04.76
Reed Lackey
ah
01:18:05.45
Steve Barnes
yes
01:18:05.58
Lindsey Dunn
I don't know what speculation I had. was just more saying with it when the droopy eyeball. You know, was that?
01:18:10.97
Reed Lackey
Yeah.
01:18:11.54
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. um But yeah, good. I don't want to cut you off, Steve. If you're...
01:18:17.40
Steve Barnes
No, I cut myself off because I had like a great point I was going to make that will come to me in about five minutes probably.
01:18:17.43
Lindsey Dunn
like Maybe it'll come back.
01:18:23.18
Reed Lackey
That's always how it goes.
01:18:24.41
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
01:18:25.44
Lindsey Dunn
All right. Well, this brings us to our last two characters, which would be Tanyal and Dick Halloran. So we're sort of already talking about Dick Halloran. um We can kind of talk about these guys together or separate, um but who wants to lead us off here?
01:18:43.60
Steve Barnes
I would love to.
01:18:44.44
Lindsey Dunn
Okay.
01:18:45.40
Steve Barnes
um I guess the reason being is, let's see.
01:18:56.07
Steve Barnes
Guys, what happened to me here?
01:18:58.22
Reed Lackey
no
01:18:58.71
Steve Barnes
me read. one one one one
01:19:00.11
Lindsey Dunn
Pennywise has got you. You've got the fog.
01:19:01.87
Reed Lackey
I know and this is getting scary now.
01:19:04.26
Steve Barnes
yeah
01:19:07.44
Steve Barnes
um Yeah, I kind of lost it.
01:19:09.27
Lindsey Dunn
All right.
01:19:09.56
Steve Barnes
um Oh, yeah, I was going to say, Tanyul. You mentioned earlier, Lindsey, that um you know Rose entrusted this.
01:19:13.93
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm.
01:19:16.39
Steve Barnes
You called it a secret to Tanyul. But I think this is like a well-known legend among their whole tribe.
01:19:21.51
Lindsey Dunn
Well, no, it's just so I said a story, an important story.
01:19:25.26
Steve Barnes
Gotcha. Okay. Right on. Because yeah, he, he recites this story pretty well for a little kid.
01:19:30.98
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm.
01:19:31.20
Steve Barnes
um He gives us all the details about the, the Shakopee is what, how I think how you would pronounce that. And um the way that Dick has to force himself into Tanyal's mind um it played off a little goofy in my opinion, and I was a little confused.
01:19:49.38
Steve Barnes
I think that's one of the points um that I agree with you fully, Reed, that the pacing could have been much different during that particular scene.
01:19:55.99
Reed Lackey
Oh.
01:19:58.15
Steve Barnes
Once inside the mind and they were locked in together, I was totally on board. But up until that point, what they were trying to show us was Taniel's um resisting Dick reading his mind and resisting that.
01:20:13.91
Steve Barnes
And the great point I was going to make, I finally got it.
01:20:17.50
Reed Lackey
oh
01:20:17.57
Steve Barnes
It's finally here. If the two worlds have been converged, Dick Halloran shining in its world, then that's really bad news for everybody because it has just seen where the 13 shards are placed around the forest.
01:20:34.05
Steve Barnes
And that's a big sticking point because it's, ah it's, that's the prison that it's inside of.
01:20:34.50
Reed Lackey
Yeah.
01:20:40.85
Steve Barnes
So if it also heard that story that Tanyul just told Dick Halloran, then, you know, the story is going to start advancing very quickly.
01:20:52.33
Reed Lackey
yeah
01:20:52.34
Lindsey Dunn
I'm not sure that, I'm not sure I see that as a problem because i think that he already knows where the pillars are because he's the one that is trapped inside the pillars.
01:21:05.07
Lindsey Dunn
So he's aware of his own prison. That's why he, this is how I see it anyway, that that's why he interacts with people through these drains and the gutters because he's trapped under these, where these pipes are.
01:21:10.47
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
01:21:20.29
Lindsey Dunn
under this house, where the well house is. So that's where he hangs out because that's his home base.
01:21:24.06
Reed Lackey
Mm-hmm.
01:21:27.69
Lindsey Dunn
You know, he's he can go here and no farther.
01:21:30.42
Steve Barnes
yeah
01:21:30.63
Lindsey Dunn
So I just, I don't know if if he's been revealed any new information. but yeah.
01:21:36.83
Steve Barnes
Well, it seems like Daniel is about to show Dick Halloran and us like exactly. He's like, this is the house and the house leads to the 13 points. points
01:21:47.67
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm.
01:21:48.23
Steve Barnes
And again, like when the little kid was little kid, Daniel was showing us the vision we could see like in the forest, like with the smoke, we could easily triangulate where all those things were using that vision.
01:22:01.67
Steve Barnes
And I'm sure that it was probably like freezing his TV at the same time.
01:22:05.47
Lindsey Dunn
Thank
01:22:05.55
Steve Barnes
Like, Oh, where is that one at? That one's next to the stream.
01:22:07.83
Reed Lackey
yeah Yeah. Well, I think that that also raises the question of If Pennywise, you know, I don't know whether or not he would want to be found because I don't think he's necessarily terribly threatened by the idea of them looking for him. And maybe if they come in there all cavalier and start busting stuff up, then maybe he can finally get out, which ah again, I'm, I don't even know how deep I want to go down that speculation, but it even raises the question of, well,
01:22:41.47
Reed Lackey
Well, maybe Taniel's story is not entirely Taniel's story. And maybe if if Pennywise has infected this landscape of what Halloran can see and know, again, I don't know, then then then maybe some of that is, yeah, then then come come to me.
01:22:53.94
Steve Barnes
um I hope not.
01:22:59.53
Reed Lackey
There is a moment, I don't know how deep you guys get into previews, um But there is a moment in the preview for ah presumably the next episode. I don't know if it's the next episode or the next few episodes because it was like a mid-season.
01:23:11.85
Steve Barnes
Next few, next few. Yeah.
01:23:13.14
Reed Lackey
Yeah, next few um where Pennywise says the line, you invited all your friends to come see me. And it it made me wonder of like, well, is he terribly threatened by their encroachment upon him? I don't get the sense that he is.
01:23:26.51
Reed Lackey
i get the sense that he's like, oh hello, you know, like and and wants to leverage it for his own purposes.
01:23:32.72
Steve Barnes
Hmm. true.
01:23:34.29
Reed Lackey
um You know, so anyway.
01:23:35.16
Lindsey Dunn
it's kind of a repeat of a repeat of history because
01:23:39.05
Reed Lackey
hmm.
01:23:39.27
Lindsey Dunn
in the story, as long as they stayed out of his territory, all was well and good, but it was when they went into his territory, he was able to feed and he got stronger and was able to leave his prison.
01:23:45.62
Steve Barnes
oh co true
01:23:49.96
Reed Lackey
Yeah.
01:23:51.72
Lindsey Dunn
So that it seems like that's what he's waiting for is for everybody to come visit him.
01:23:52.20
Reed Lackey
Yeah.
01:23:57.03
Reed Lackey
Yeah. And then he'll no unleash.
01:24:00.49
Steve Barnes
the more the merrier kind of situation.
01:24:02.54
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
01:24:02.92
Reed Lackey
Maybe.
01:24:03.72
Lindsey Dunn
But before we, before we leave, we're kind of getting towards the end here. I want to, I want to go back to Daniel and Dick Halloran for just a minute is that, yeah, he had the strength to try to ward off Dick Halloran.
01:24:11.89
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
01:24:16.30
Lindsey Dunn
And from what we know, he doesn't have any special shine or abilities. So I thought that was interesting. And that Halloran seems very surprised about how much force it takes for him to get through.
01:24:28.20
Reed Lackey
Mm-hmm.
01:24:28.45
Lindsey Dunn
and he has to unlock his Daniel's brain, almost like a puzzle, a puzzle box that he has to open. And I just thought that scene was very well done. I know you said it didn't work for you, Steve.
01:24:41.09
Lindsey Dunn
I thought it was terrifying, the the note especially with the noise, with the slices.
01:24:41.48
Steve Barnes
Nah.
01:24:46.57
Lindsey Dunn
It was like he sliced into his brain. and I thought that was, that as a sound design choice, that was very effective because I was worried for for for for poor Daniel about um if he was his brain was going to get fried from this operation.
01:25:03.89
Lindsey Dunn
um also, oh, go ahead.
01:25:05.07
Steve Barnes
Yeah, like when when Dick did the thing, we put his finger on his forehead and the rest of his hand wrapped around his mouth.
01:25:08.26
Lindsey Dunn
her Yeah.
01:25:10.83
Steve Barnes
I was like, he means business now.
01:25:12.07
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
01:25:12.11
Steve Barnes
This is like the real deal. So watch out, Daniel.
01:25:15.40
Lindsey Dunn
He had the three fingers that goes to the one finger and it's the middle finger.
01:25:15.76
Reed Lackey
concentration.
01:25:18.60
Lindsey Dunn
Of course, middle fingers up.
01:25:19.74
Steve Barnes
of Yes, baby.
01:25:22.87
Lindsey Dunn
um But Daniel is playing with this toys, these, just these action figures um that it was really hard to get a good look of, look at those.
01:25:30.63
Steve Barnes
Oh, right.
01:25:34.76
Lindsey Dunn
Somebody in a video told me he had a bear. I don't know what significance there is of that, that he was playing with.
01:25:41.05
Steve Barnes
The Wendigo, perhaps.
01:25:43.21
Lindsey Dunn
Well, the window goes not a bear, is it? It's it's a, but.
01:25:47.15
Steve Barnes
I thought it was kind of a bearish kind of thing. I don't know.
01:25:51.91
Lindsey Dunn
So yeah.
01:25:51.95
Steve Barnes
I'm talking to my butt now.
01:25:53.88
Lindsey Dunn
but I was glad that Joshua Ojek got this, got this scene here. um He's a, he's a good actor. ah Now, Dick Halloran himself, I don't know if I have too much to add to what we said. The only thing is when he's cleaning up the black spot with his boys, he has this vision of his grandma and she tells him to keep the lid on tight.
01:26:17.89
Lindsey Dunn
So what did you guys think of his scene in the woods before? We already talked about how Leroy showed up and they had this electric connection, but there was this um this scene in the woods before that happens where he sees his grandma and some visions of things happening behind a closed door?
01:26:35.40
Lindsey Dunn
what What did you guys get out of that?
01:26:35.94
Steve Barnes
Right.
01:26:38.84
Steve Barnes
ah The keep the lid on tight thing made me think again about Dr. Sleep once again, because they talk about, you know, taking your fears and putting them inside of a box and locking them away.
01:26:49.38
Reed Lackey
Mm-hmm.
01:26:50.90
Steve Barnes
So I think that's the lid that she's referring to. That's just my guess. It seems like an educated guess, but it is just a guess. um And yeah, we basically I said before that we got like four scare screens but scare scenes, but really we got like five if you want to count Dick Halloran's vision and seeing his grandma here. There's a lot of ah real metaphysical stuff happening in this episode. That's like five scenes to my count.
01:27:17.31
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Any thoughts about Halloran's vision, Reed?
01:27:24.27
Reed Lackey
um I think the only thing that I just kept going back to is just that, yeah, like we know so little about individual lore from Halloran other than the mention that he had in, you know, surrounding the black spot.
01:27:37.25
Reed Lackey
And then that his grandmother is the one who sort of taught him about his ability and, and, and taught him what to do with it and, and ostensibly how to hone it. So i think this, this show is taking that to a place of that. Maybe that,
01:27:51.99
Reed Lackey
was a kind of a horrific or traumatic experience for him rather than a nurturing, caring one, which I kind of always assumed it was, that maybe it was more nightmarish for him to learn about that than the sort of gentility with which he expressed it to Dany in the novel, The Shining.
01:27:58.81
Steve Barnes
Yeah, me too.
01:28:11.16
Reed Lackey
um so So yeah, that that that is an interesting kind of take on it. um One thing I will mention going back a little bit, um when you mentioned the,
01:28:21.52
Reed Lackey
um the bear toy.
01:28:24.15
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah.
01:28:24.64
Reed Lackey
i mean, I don't totally know that this is a solid Easter egg because bears are ubiquitous, especially with indigenous sort of ah culture and iconography. But ah there is Shardik from the drawing of the three um that that might be a vague distant reference to.
01:28:41.15
Reed Lackey
But I don't know. It it doesn't feel...
01:28:43.34
Steve Barnes
Another Easter egg. Congrats.
01:28:44.76
Reed Lackey
Yeah, i know. It doesn't feel like a totally tight enough connection for me to really be like, oh, that's what that means, because bears can mean a lot of different things. But I did note, i was like, well, there's a pretty prominent bear in the drawing of the three ah that has some some significance.
01:28:58.40
Reed Lackey
So maybe, who knows? But yes, from the same story.
01:29:00.18
Steve Barnes
And the same doorways as well from that exact same story. So that's same scene as well.
01:29:04.47
Reed Lackey
Yeah, yep, exactly.
01:29:05.42
Lindsey Dunn
Right.
01:29:06.14
Steve Barnes
So I don't know, Reed, I'll give it to you.
01:29:07.85
Reed Lackey
Yeah.
01:29:08.44
Lindsey Dunn
I thought it was, you know, it was just kind of interesting to consider what a young indigenous boy would be playing with. You know, we have our games we played when we were little that now are like totally inappropriate, like ah cowboys and Indians and things like that.
01:29:26.19
Reed Lackey
Oh, right, right.
01:29:27.60
Lindsey Dunn
So this little boy is um It makes me think of that um Stephen Graham Jones, his graphic novel series about um killing Christopher Columbus, I think it's called. i I've read only one volume, but it's a it's a speculative, i don't know if you've seen this one, Steve, but it's a speculative series about um time travelers oh who go back to the past and they decide they are going to kill Christopher Columbus to avoid...
01:29:51.31
Reed Lackey
Thank you.
01:29:58.15
Lindsey Dunn
the bad things that happened to them. So, um, yeah, it's like, what was, what was Daniel?
01:30:01.94
Steve Barnes
Righteous.
01:30:04.34
Lindsey Dunn
What's, what is the thing that he imagines here as a little boy?
01:30:09.24
Steve Barnes
It looked like he was just having a ball playing soldier to me. So like, I like the deep dive into the, into the, uh, into the action here.
01:30:16.77
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. And we got to see this origin story on screen. I don't, I don't, I think this is maybe the first time we really see, uh, it origin story on screen.
01:30:27.25
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
01:30:27.26
Lindsey Dunn
Um,
01:30:27.34
Reed Lackey
Oh, yeah, I think so.
01:30:28.11
Lindsey Dunn
we've heard We've heard it told.
01:30:28.12
Reed Lackey
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
01:30:30.52
Lindsey Dunn
We know what the story is from the books. um But they imbibe it with this new name, the glue. um Yeah, so the the story is, interestingly enough, this story ends up being another story with kids versus adults.
01:30:53.03
Lindsey Dunn
The adults decide decide we don't have enough
01:30:53.18
Steve Barnes
Yep.
01:30:57.03
Lindsey Dunn
weapons to fight this thing off anymore so we will leave the kids decide they know better but you know disobey mommy and daddy yeah and leave in the middle of the night to go investigate the caves on their own and everything goes south
01:31:05.61
Steve Barnes
Okay. Yeah.
01:31:13.62
Steve Barnes
Yeah. Because of the kids or.
01:31:17.32
Lindsey Dunn
yeah um but yeah they had these visions of the
01:31:19.07
Steve Barnes
Yep.
01:31:23.99
Lindsey Dunn
of the, perhaps the Wendigo. And then they had this priest, um which, yeah, that would be something that would be scary to indigenous people, a Christian priest, very sad.
01:31:34.96
Lindsey Dunn
And a baby Jesus coming out and...
01:31:38.95
Steve Barnes
I thought it was a baby Chucky. That's what it looked like to me.
01:31:41.31
Reed Lackey
ah
01:31:43.19
Steve Barnes
and i thought it was really funny too, that like the, um, the native Americans, like they're like, you're going to face what you're scared of. And the first person had a moose and then everybody after that, it was a bunch of white people. Like, this is what we're really scared of.
01:31:53.84
Reed Lackey
Oh, yeah.
01:31:54.99
Lindsey Dunn
yeah
01:31:55.49
Steve Barnes
was like, that kind of clocks. I, I, this makes a lot of sense.
01:31:58.18
Reed Lackey
isnt
01:31:59.56
Lindsey Dunn
Okay.
01:31:59.86
Reed Lackey
On brand.
01:32:00.83
Lindsey Dunn
Well, that brings us to the ending. And I had a question about this ending. So in the ending of the episode, Daniel shows Dick Howler in the Nibolt house. And he says, this is where the pillars are kept.
01:32:13.80
Lindsey Dunn
And that confused me a little bit because in the vision, we see that the pillars are surrounding Derry, but he says they're underneath the Nibolt house. So I was like, All those pillars are underneath there? does he just mean the access point is under the house to get to these?
01:32:29.50
Reed Lackey
That's what I got.
01:32:29.59
Steve Barnes
That's what he means, yes.
01:32:30.59
Reed Lackey
Yeah, i got I got it as like, that's the crux. That's the central sort of location. Like if you're looking for where you will have access to all of these different things, it it centers around the Nybolt house is how I took it to me.
01:32:44.64
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm.
01:32:44.95
Steve Barnes
yeah and I've always you know understood the Knobolt House was also like the center of like the you know the municipal municipal sewage system, which you know makes a lot of sense as well, because that would have to be in the center of town to like connect everything.
01:32:59.98
Steve Barnes
So it's really neat that it also connects like this prison as well, because we've always known that the sewers have been Pennywise's lair, and that's how he gets around.
01:33:03.91
Reed Lackey
Yeah.
01:33:10.68
Steve Barnes
So it's even cooler knowing that like, that's actually all he can do because he can't get past that point.
01:33:15.86
Reed Lackey
Yeah.
01:33:18.33
Lindsey Dunn
Right. Well, I know I had a spot saved out for scare scenes, but I feel like we've talked about them all already. So I'm not sure if there's anything else we need to say about those.
01:33:26.66
Reed Lackey
Nope.
01:33:30.08
Reed Lackey
nope
01:33:30.87
Lindsey Dunn
I think we're ready then to rate our episode from one to five turtles.
01:33:38.18
Reed Lackey
All right.
01:33:38.18
Lindsey Dunn
So would you like to go first read?
01:33:39.67
Steve Barnes
You,
01:33:41.45
Reed Lackey
I can, i can. I will mention, sorry not to rewind. I will mention just because I teased it at the beginning of this conversation, the the the moment that made me jump was ah Will in the river.
01:33:45.85
Lindsey Dunn
oh
01:33:50.10
Reed Lackey
Like I should have known better, but I was so focused on that fish that when the hand came up, I was like, okay, all right.
01:33:50.98
Lindsey Dunn
Mmm.
01:33:55.68
Reed Lackey
Yes, that that that got me, that got me. So just just jumped real big. um So yeah, so this is ah rating this episode in number of turtles.
01:34:09.27
Reed Lackey
So this one was a bit of a downturn for me from previous episodes. Not that there wasn't great stuff in it, um but it felt a little bit like stage setting for me. So this one's going to land for me at more of a three um out of five turtles.
01:34:24.35
Reed Lackey
um So, yeah, I enjoyed the episode. Obviously have a lot to praise and a lot to point to that I that i appreciate, um but didn't invigorate me the way some previous episodes had done.
01:34:34.84
Reed Lackey
So, yeah.
01:34:37.48
Steve Barnes
I'll go next, I suppose.
01:34:37.45
Lindsey Dunn
so
01:34:39.11
Steve Barnes
And I'll say that my scariest scene that, that I didn't like the most was the, uh, the bandsaw scene where she decided to try to bandsaw those googly eyes off.
01:34:48.85
Reed Lackey
oh my Oh my gosh.
01:34:49.96
Steve Barnes
I was completely horrible. And that was, that was my scare of the week. And we'll find out what, what scared Lindsey the most next.
01:34:55.71
Reed Lackey
Too much.
01:34:58.46
Steve Barnes
But for my turtle rating though, um, I'm, I'm in the exact same place you are read. went three out of five turtles for the basic reason that, um, the show is, is, is steady and along and it's, it's keeping its pace.
01:35:16.39
Steve Barnes
It definitely hasn't lost me. It's keeping me interested. but I'm not like shouting from the rooftops about it. I'm not like, I'm not forcing people that I work with to watch it.
01:35:28.35
Steve Barnes
um Like I do some other shows.
01:35:30.24
Reed Lackey
Right.
01:35:30.29
Steve Barnes
um
01:35:30.99
Reed Lackey
Right.
01:35:31.21
Steve Barnes
So for that reason, I'm just going to stick right in the middle there. Three out of five turtles, Lindsey.
01:35:36.94
Lindsey Dunn
Okay. Well, that that that makes me the oddball. I'm giving this one five turtles this week.
01:35:43.34
Steve Barnes
Whoa, this is the five.
01:35:43.42
Reed Lackey
Whoa!
01:35:44.88
Lindsey Dunn
Yes.
01:35:45.02
Reed Lackey
Coming in hot!
01:35:46.17
Lindsey Dunn
yes i'd love
01:35:46.23
Reed Lackey
Oh, wow!
01:35:46.50
Steve Barnes
You love that losers club, man.
01:35:48.76
Reed Lackey
Yeah. Right.
01:35:50.68
Lindsey Dunn
I loved that scene. I loved the interaction between Leroy and Dick. I liked what um Charlotte was doing. She was gone, a gull gung ho, civil rights warrior.
01:36:03.99
Lindsey Dunn
um i i thought this was, I thought it was a great episode. I mean, the weakest part was the kids.
01:36:09.40
Steve Barnes
Yeah.
01:36:09.50
Reed Lackey
this
01:36:09.81
Lindsey Dunn
But, but then when you bring Marge, she, I think that, I don't know if it scared me, but I was certainly squeamish. I was like, Oh, eyeball whore, please.
01:36:21.52
Lindsey Dunn
No, Roger rabbit eyeballs, you know, and,
01:36:24.73
Reed Lackey
Oh my gosh.
01:36:26.56
Lindsey Dunn
and
01:36:27.05
Steve Barnes
that
01:36:27.70
Lindsey Dunn
So, i yeah.
01:36:27.87
Steve Barnes
That makes me extremely happy, Lindsey, that this was five out of five for you. I love that you loved it. And it makes me want to give it a higher rating.
01:36:33.56
Reed Lackey
isn
01:36:35.63
Steve Barnes
I'm not going to. i love that you loved it
01:36:37.35
Lindsey Dunn
You shouldn't.
01:36:39.15
Steve Barnes
um My wife, my wife, Heather said the same thing too. She said it was the best episode so far. And so she's taking this episode, man.
01:36:44.48
Reed Lackey
Wow.
01:36:47.48
Steve Barnes
That's all there is to it.
01:36:47.78
Lindsey Dunn
She has, Heather impeccable taste, I'm telling you.
01:36:47.87
Reed Lackey
Awesome.
01:36:51.29
Steve Barnes
You always say that.
01:36:51.84
Lindsey Dunn
All right. ah All right, we're on now ready for MVP character. Each of us gets to choose our MVP character character of the week who really made the episode for us, either know by their performance being really good or the one that made it the most enjoyable for us.
01:37:11.52
Lindsey Dunn
So, yeah.
01:37:11.59
Steve Barnes
Will you go first this time, Lindsey, since Reed went first and then I went?
01:37:13.37
Lindsey Dunn
Okay. ah Sure, sure, sure.
01:37:15.08
Reed Lackey
Yeah.
01:37:16.52
Lindsey Dunn
Okay, well, I actually had a different person, but I changed it the last minute I am giving mine to Charlotte Hanlon.
01:37:21.62
Steve Barnes
Oh.
01:37:24.88
Steve Barnes
Legit.
01:37:25.43
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah, she Taylor page she goes to the station twice she goes to visit Luella Grogan, ah you know, reaches out to the community she stands up to this white cop stands up to her husband.
01:37:26.35
Steve Barnes
Deservedly.
01:37:37.03
Lindsey Dunn
refriends the great protective dairy and manages to be a good mom to her son. She is a busy woman, but she's doing a heck of a job as a mom and a friend and a community member.
01:37:47.90
Reed Lackey
That's awesome.
01:37:48.28
Steve Barnes
Nice. Yeah. I love that.
01:37:49.42
Reed Lackey
Love it.
01:37:51.24
Steve Barnes
How about you read?
01:37:52.40
Reed Lackey
ah My MVP is by a landslide. i have to give it to Marge. um I feel like it she encapsulates in her singular couple of scenes ah every everything that I would praise about what the show is doing well.
01:38:08.14
Reed Lackey
ah Performance-wise, I think she's the MVP. ah she gets the biggest and most bad scare of it all the the the peril and the torment um but also the the complex emotionality of it how she as a character her motivations are probably the most complex because Lily is a mystery to her right now and she doesn't understand everything that's happening with her friend and she's torn between these two ah competing goals where i think she I think she genuinely cares for Lily.
01:38:39.93
Reed Lackey
You could see that that even when she sets up the prank to begin with, she's immediately conflicted about what she's done. So she still deeply cares for her.
01:38:46.81
Steve Barnes
That's right.
01:38:48.45
Reed Lackey
And I think the complexity of those motivations make her very interesting as a character. So yeah, ah by a landslide, my MVP is Marge.
01:38:57.45
Steve Barnes
Man, I I'm last here and and I agree with you both. Um, my runner up MVP for this week, my runner up was Charlotte because she did the most as a character.
01:39:10.63
Steve Barnes
um she got the most accomplished this week. And I, I think there's no denying that. But my number one MVP is just like Reed. It's Marge for those exact same reasons.
01:39:23.49
Steve Barnes
A wide range of emotions from this actress. She had to go from like, you know, dour, sad, too excited, too pretending to be a friend, too pretending to be, i mean, there was layers to what she was doing as an actress.
01:39:41.02
Steve Barnes
um So really my MVP is more so for the actress of Marge than the character of Marge.
01:39:47.95
Lindsey Dunn
Well, that's fair.
01:39:48.05
Reed Lackey
Yeah, she's great.
01:39:50.54
Lindsey Dunn
So what do we think is going to happen next? Anything we haven't said yet?
01:39:53.18
Steve Barnes
I
01:39:55.01
Lindsey Dunn
I have a list.
01:39:56.38
Steve Barnes
have a list too.
01:39:58.00
Reed Lackey
I did not make notes, but I will not do what I did beforehand. i will i will I will just, if you don't mind, I'll lead off with one um big thing is I definitely feel like what happens next is the story of ah The theater death of the kids is going to converge with the investigations of the military and and Dick Halloran. They are going to converge by way of the Hanlon family, that Leroy is going to arrive at the Nybolt house one way.
01:40:34.14
Reed Lackey
And Charlotte is going to arrive at it a different way. I think, yeah, I think that they that they are going to converge by the disparate paths.
01:40:36.91
Steve Barnes
Oh, neat.
01:40:42.65
Reed Lackey
Charlotte by investigating the Grogan story and, you know, Leroy by the, you know, what's going on with Dick and everything like that. I think they are both going to converge on the Neibolt house.
01:40:53.76
Reed Lackey
I think that's to happen.
01:40:55.01
Steve Barnes
I can see the scene right now. They both show up. What are you doing here? What are you doing here? yeah
01:41:01.15
Reed Lackey
Yakety Sax begins playing as they run around.
01:41:04.52
Lindsey Dunn
Mm-hmm. Well, I definitely see that being the immediate future of what happens next because they they ended it with the house. So obviously, General Shaw is now going to be, oh well, we need to go to that house and find it find the thing.
01:41:20.11
Reed Lackey
Mm-hmm.
01:41:22.22
Lindsey Dunn
And it's going to be bad. It's going to be bad. Yeah.
01:41:26.61
Steve Barnes
It is. Yep. ah And speaking of Shaw too, um one of my predictions is they're going to have to do something with Daniel. They can't just keep holding them. So they're going to have to let him go and he's going to go back to Rose and, you know, let her know what happened.
01:41:35.76
Lindsey Dunn
Hmm.
01:41:43.65
Steve Barnes
to like his mind with Dick Halloran. So that's going to get the story going forward. um Charlotte's on the radar of it now. I'm sure of it because she's been snooping around everywhere.
01:41:55.39
Steve Barnes
So I'm, I'm worried about Charlotte now more so than anybody else because she's an adult that is, doesn't act like other adults in dairy. So she seems like a threat to it. And then my last small point, which I think is kind of like a gimme is I think that Marge is going to join the gang.
01:42:12.81
Steve Barnes
I think the Marge is going to be friends with everybody next episode.
01:42:16.20
Lindsey Dunn
Yeah. Well, we've seen it, but we've seen it in the trailers, but they keep putting it off. Like in that in in the trailer for last week, even they showed her going into the caves with them with her eye patch on.
01:42:30.23
Lindsey Dunn
And then it's like, no, not yet, not yet.
01:42:30.79
Reed Lackey
Go
01:42:33.43
Lindsey Dunn
um So I have, I'm just going to say all mine, Reed. I'm going to be the Reed Lackey of this episode. This part, yeah.
01:42:40.46
Reed Lackey
go go for it.
01:42:41.73
Lindsey Dunn
i just So I said, ah Rose tries to stop Shaw, but you mentioned maybe they're letting Taniel go, or it could be just Rose finds out where Taniel's being held and she goes to visit him.
01:42:53.26
Lindsey Dunn
Ronnie Grogan's a goner. Lily will end up in Juniper Hill. Ronnie's going to be killed.
01:42:57.71
Steve Barnes
Oh.
01:42:58.01
Lindsey Dunn
Rich deported and Will burned in a fire. i mean, know.
01:43:02.66
Steve Barnes
Deported? He's a kid! Yeah.
01:43:05.08
Reed Lackey
Man.
01:43:05.40
Lindsey Dunn
Well, I'm I'm just trying to think what I'm saying, what I'm seeing here in the future is we know that Pennywise isn't defeated. So our kids are not going to make it.
01:43:17.00
Steve Barnes
yeah
01:43:17.12
Lindsey Dunn
um We could, we could hope for, I guess the best we could hope for them is that they'll put it to rest and everything will be okay. But I feel like because Pennywise is not defeated at all by the end of this season, it's going to be,
01:43:33.66
Lindsey Dunn
a bad ending for everybody. Maybe that's very cynical for me, but, um, what I noticed about Rich is, is that he, um, you know, when he comes in the office and tries to talk to chief Bowers, chief Bowers is just like, who's this kid?
01:43:51.19
Lindsey Dunn
Like, he's not even interested in listening to him.
01:43:53.32
Reed Lackey
Mm-hmm.
01:43:54.03
Lindsey Dunn
And I, I have a feeling that's because of his heritage, you know, this is a racist town.
01:43:54.54
Steve Barnes
It's true.
01:44:00.16
Steve Barnes
Oh, I didn't even think about that, actually.
01:44:00.82
Lindsey Dunn
So, um Yeah, like he's he's in the country and they're already upset that they think the Cubans and the Russians are making these weapons. So I just, I think that eight there he's not going to be welcome. He and his family are not going welcome in this town and it's going to be bad. And that's really upsetting because Rich is such a funny, ah lively character. We don't want to see him go anywhere.
01:44:25.67
Reed Lackey
Yeah. Yeah.
01:44:26.09
Steve Barnes
wo
01:44:26.31
Reed Lackey
yeah
01:44:26.48
Steve Barnes
Would I be okay in dairy? Like ah i'm I'm, I'm Italian heritage. So would I be okay? Or would they hate me too?
01:44:33.69
Reed Lackey
i think everybody I think everybody hates everybody in Derry. They just don't want to admit it.
01:44:37.50
Steve Barnes
ah man. All right.
01:44:40.10
Reed Lackey
So i'll go'll I'll go ahead. I don't know how often I'll be able to be back on the show, so I'm going to go ahead and just just throw the gauntlet down with some very specific predictions.
01:44:48.49
Steve Barnes
Oh boy.
01:44:48.67
Reed Lackey
um In the trailer, we saw ah Pennywise saying, you invited all your friends. I'm going to make a prediction right now that he is saying that to the character of will i i don't know how that's going to play out but i think he is saying that line to the character of will um and i think the uh his his other line i've always wondered how you taste i think he is saying that to lily um and i i am going to predict that either in the next episode or somewhere in the next couple of episodes
01:45:05.15
Steve Barnes
Okay.
01:45:21.52
Reed Lackey
umm I'm going to double down on my prediction that that Pennywise is specifically manipulating the visions of Dick Halloran in some way, or that he is a he has infected the visions of Dick Halloran, that what Dick is seeing is not necessarily ah the the the pure, true, ah you know, what he needs to be seeing or what he's after seeing. I think ah think it's in his head.
01:45:46.12
Reed Lackey
So, throwing a couple of gauntlets down.
01:45:46.89
Lindsey Dunn
Dick Halloran he was kind of acting creepy at the end of Daniel's.
01:45:51.27
Steve Barnes
He sure it was.
01:45:52.38
Lindsey Dunn
He had that weird grin on his face. That's not normal for him at all.
01:45:55.99
Reed Lackey
Yeah. Yep. Yep. Absolutely.
01:45:57.48
Steve Barnes
And he's always got that vibe anyway. Like, you know, all the other dudes seem like pretty loose and even his haircut's not as good as everybody else's. So, yeah.
01:46:06.97
Reed Lackey
yeah
01:46:08.54
Lindsey Dunn
hu All right. Did you have any other predictions, Steve, for the show?
01:46:12.80
Steve Barnes
That Dick Halloran gets a normal haircut.
01:46:16.01
Reed Lackey
That's it.
01:46:16.62
Lindsey Dunn
Oh my goodness. Okay.
01:46:20.47
Lindsey Dunn
um So plugs or announcements you guys have?
01:46:27.12
Steve Barnes
Oh, this is fodder for Reed.
01:46:27.18
Reed Lackey
Uh...
01:46:28.72
Steve Barnes
Come on, man. This is what you're here for.
01:46:30.36
Reed Lackey
Well, yeah, I'll just ah yeah i'll just say ah check us out over at the Fear of God podcast. um You guys are friends of our show, and and we can't wait to have you back at some point in the near near future.
01:46:40.88
Reed Lackey
um But yeah, check us out over at the Fear of God podcast. We are, as this episode will air, we are currently on a quasi-hiatus of regular standard episodes, um which will last ah through the end of the year. There will be things in the feed. We have various interviews coming up um that will drop to the feed, both with creative filmmakers and some other fun things that are coming up.
01:47:00.51
Reed Lackey
um So there are things happening in the feed, um but we will resume standard episodes after the first of the year. But yeah, come check us out over at the Fear of God podcast. We have a pretty ah massive, as I say that not without hyperbole, we have a fairly massive catalog you can get lost in.
01:47:16.47
Reed Lackey
So yeah, come check us out.
01:47:18.67
Lindsey Dunn
And there's a lot of Stephen King-ish episodes on your show, I would say, probably, Yeah.
01:47:23.09
Reed Lackey
There is
01:47:25.40
Steve Barnes
Well, there better be.
01:47:25.63
Reed Lackey
Yeah, there is. In 2019, because of King's, ah you know, sort of loose association with 19 being a significant number, we we did a lot of episodes in 2019, specifically on Stephen King. We've covered a lot of the a lot of the majors, a lot of the biggies, um but there's still a wealth that we haven't gotten to yet.
01:47:45.43
Reed Lackey
So, yeah, there's a lot over there.
01:47:49.04
Lindsey Dunn
Okay, Steve, what do you want to say?
01:47:51.97
Steve Barnes
Listeners, if you're still listening now at this point, then you're one of the superstars.
01:47:56.99
Reed Lackey
Mm-hmm.
01:47:57.05
Steve Barnes
Give us a shout over at sweetchildoftime.com or an email at sweetchildoftimepod at gmail.com. We'd love to hear from you. um If you want a transcript of this show, Lindsey's always providing those over at 1ofmystories.com.
01:48:12.83
Steve Barnes
And if you want to support the show, then please check us out at Patreon. James is Patreon. He's our editor and he's our lead guy basically around here.
01:48:23.49
Steve Barnes
um If you go to patreon.com forward slash MLM pod, that's like MLM pod.com like multi-level marketing, but it's not, it's Marshall and media.
01:48:36.04
Steve Barnes
um Yeah. Check us out there. You can get on the discord.
01:48:39.82
Lindsey Dunn
Okay. And for my plugs this week, I want to share that I just found out there is a opera version of The Shining. Just found out tonight.
01:48:49.77
Reed Lackey
Wow.
01:48:49.90
Lindsey Dunn
Don't know if you can watch it.
01:48:50.04
Reed Lackey
Well,
01:48:50.90
Lindsey Dunn
it was yeah It got really good reviews.
01:48:50.98
Steve Barnes
Do want to see that? Okay. Hmm.
01:48:54.97
Lindsey Dunn
It came out in 2016 in Minnesota.
01:48:55.54
Steve Barnes
okay
01:48:59.13
Lindsey Dunn
um So i was like I was looking at people who played Dick Halloran and they said,
01:49:00.18
Reed Lackey
well now
01:49:04.45
Lindsey Dunn
such and such played Dick Halloran in the opera of the shining. Like what? So there's, I couldn't find a video of the complete opera, but you can see previews of the opera with the best scenes from the shining opera.
01:49:19.74
Lindsey Dunn
um was interesting to, to see that play out. um So also wanted to shout out a couple of indigenous stories that, you know, after this episode,
01:49:31.68
Lindsey Dunn
There's a movie I really enjoy called Wild Indian. And the kid version of Taniel is in that movie.
01:49:41.19
Steve Barnes
Cool tie-in.
01:49:41.46
Lindsey Dunn
um this is a This is currently playing on the wonderful network of Tubi. T-U-B-Y.
01:49:48.12
Steve Barnes
It is wonderful, yeah.
01:49:50.16
Lindsey Dunn
And um this is ah a sort of, what do you call it? A multi-time period movie that goes through different decades in two decades.
01:50:01.93
Lindsey Dunn
people's lives and how their stories intersect and they keep coming back together. One of them is fully embracing his indigenous identity and the other one is sort of hiding in the white culture and um they they both experienced the same childhood event together, but chose different paths and how their choices impact their lives and their contentment with their circumstances.
01:50:31.71
Lindsey Dunn
And I just think that's a great movie. It was a Sundance premiere. um Also, of course, the book Buffalo Hunter Hunter by Stephen Grant Jones is getting a lot of great reviews for a good reason.
01:50:40.68
Steve Barnes
Yep. Hmm.
01:50:45.01
Lindsey Dunn
I have listened to it on audiobook. I had problems with the audiobook and I'm now reading it and I feel like I'm able to enjoy the voice and the sarcasm of one of the lead Karen Baxter, Capacity Collective & Characters unreliableness of his dialogue let's say that his narration he's an unreliable narrator but I wasn't able to pick up that until Karen Baxter, The Capacity Collective & Characters got the actual book, rather than the audio book usually I do audio books but it's a strong recommendation for me if you want another great indigenous story.
01:51:20.94
Steve Barnes
I'm on board. I'm enthused about this wild Indian you just talking about. That sounds like a sweet child of time thing right there. So I'm into it.
01:51:26.70
Reed Lackey
It's a great flick. Yeah, it's a great flick.
01:51:28.52
Steve Barnes
I've never heard of it until now. So I'm i'm intrigued.
01:51:31.16
Reed Lackey
And I couldn't remember if you guys mentioned this last week, um but the actor who plays Taniel was also prominently featured in The Long Walk, which is another Stephen King adaptation.
01:51:39.54
Steve Barnes
Oh, Lindsey knows this.
01:51:39.63
Lindsey Dunn
Yep.
01:51:39.94
Reed Lackey
So, yeah. Yeah.
01:51:41.18
Steve Barnes
Yep.
01:51:41.80
Reed Lackey
Mm-hmm.
01:51:43.30
Lindsey Dunn
All right. So unless you guys have anything else, I'm ready to close.
01:51:47.86
Reed Lackey
Let's do it.
01:51:47.94
Steve Barnes
Same.
01:51:49.93
Lindsey Dunn
Okay. Well, thank you everyone for joining in this episode of welcome to dairy. May all the clowns you meet be kind. May all the friends you met be kept safe in your hearts. And we hope to see you all next week for episode five titled Nibolt street.
01:52:04.66
Steve Barnes
Oh, boy. Bye, everyone.
01:52:06.68
Lindsey Dunn
Goodbye.
01:52:08.92
Reed Lackey
Bye.
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