Alabama Pilgrimage Reflections by Rebecca Felton: Making Up for Lost Opportunities

Photo taken at Lincoln School in Marion, AL

This episode is part of my Alabama Pilgrimage series, where I interview friends who traveled with me through the important sites of the Civil Rights Movement. Each episode, one pilgrim shares their memories and reflections from the trip, starting with myself. We hope you will enjoy listening to each of these stories.

Today's pilgrim is Rebecca Felton. Rebecca was born and raised in Durham, NC. She is a literacy advocate, with a specialty in learning disabilities connected to reading. Her experience spans teaching, tutoring, teacher training, and researcher. She also offers counseling and legal advocacy by working with groups such as NC Legal Aid and the Duke Children's Law Clinic.

 

Photo of Lincoln Normal High School in Marion, AL

Rebecca shares how she became passionate about education and about her childhood in Durham. She grew up middle class and becomes aware of race through experiences she had as a child. After leaving Durham, she became involved in civil rights marches and protests in the late 60s but regrets missing out on the earlier, more dangerous events that we learned about on the pilgrimage. I thought it was beautiful that she interrogated herself during the interview and wanted to make up for lost opportunities.

Rebecca shares about the historical Lincoln School and the power of being able to walk alongside people of different races on the pilgrimage.

If you would like to learn more about the Alabama Pilgrimage, visit the DurhamCares website.

The music in this series is entitled Brothers and Sisters by Alana Jordan on Pixabay.

Transcript of episode: 

00:09

Hello everyone, and welcome to 1 of My Stories,  a podcast about the stories shaping me.  This episode is part of my Alabama pilgrimage series,  where I interview friends who traveled with me through the important sites of the civil rights movement.  Each episode,  one pilgrim shares their memories and reflections from the trip, starting with myself.

00:36

We hope you will enjoy listening to each of these stories.  If you would like to learn more about the Alabama pilgrimage,  contact Durham Cares at DurhamCares.org.  And now onto our show.

00:57

Hello everyone, this is Lindsey Dunn here for 1 of My Stories, a podcast about the stories that are shaping me. Today I'm continuing my series of interviews with friends from the Alabama Civil Rights Pilgrimage that I took this year. My guest today is Rebecca Felton. Rebecca was born and raised in Durham, North Carolina and she is a literacy advocate and has been for a long time.

01:24

She has an interest in students with learning disabilities in reading and dyslexia. She's been a classroom teacher and a developer of teacher training materials. And she's continuing her work as an advocate for students who struggle to read and working with groups such as NC Legal Aid and the Duke Children's Law Clinic.  Rebecca, welcome to 1 of My Stories. Thank you.

01:49

Yeah, being a, I'm a librarian, that's my day job. So we're sort of partners in this work with literacy.  We have that in common.  Absolutely. I didn't know that was your day job. That was my mother's day job.  Whenever you meet another fellow librarian or literacy person and you're like, oh, this is one of my people. That's right.  So tell us a little about yourself. I rambled off this paragraph that you helped me write, but you probably can say it better in your

02:18

own words.  So what does your current life look like on an average day or week?  should make it clear that I was away from Durham for many, many years. Part of those times in Winston-Salem and part of that time in Southport on the coast. So I moved here after living in Southport with my husband for 27 years. And so now I am living as a single person, semi-retired.

02:49

And so my days are filled with whatever I want them to be filled with, which is a lovely situation to be in. I just celebrated my 81st birthday and I usually most days I exercise.  do a variety of volunteer efforts, mostly around literacy, but also homeless and feeding and housing is a passion of mine.  Yesterday, I spent several hours testifying in a due process hearing.

03:18

for one of the students that I had been involved with for about a year. So I am enjoying spending time with my family and I'm very active in my church,  tutor kids. So I stay busy and enjoy life. Is the legal thing that you just mentioned, is that something you do on a regular basis? I have on a regular basis, various students that are

03:48

legal situations. Like right now, I probably have four to five different students that I'm working with that are involved with litigation to some degree.  They rarely actually go to a due process hearing, thank goodness. They usually are resolved prior to that point.  Testifying is not part of my regular daily experience, thank goodness, but working on, like I spent, I talked to two parents today.

04:17

who were referred by lawyers for concerns about their children's reading. I may or may not see their children. I may just consult with them. But that's pretty much a regular part of my life, yes. I'm just curious.  This is fascinating to me, but why does it come about that a student with dyslexia or a learning disability would need to enlist legal help? What sort of situations cause something like that?

04:46

Well, it's unfortunately much more common than you might act. And I've been doing this kind of work off and on for a lot of my career, going back to the 80s actually.  But the issues are primarily related to dissatisfaction that gets to an extreme degree, dissatisfaction with the services that the students are receiving. It's never something that

05:14

parents do lightly. And it's never something that I recommend because it's not a pleasant thing to do to be in litigation. One of the parents I talked to today actually is a school teacher in the same system that she has a legal situation with, which is very uncomfortable for everybody. So it's always parents that have reached their wits end and feel like they cannot

05:44

in without legal help get the services that their children need.  They're desperate parents because their kids are not learning. Shame that they have to take, it has to reach that level. You would think that the, you would hope that the schools would be just as strong as advocates for the children and for literacy and yeah. Well, and to be fair, because I was a teacher also and I'm very

06:12

pro-teachers and educators, a lot of the problems come because of lack of resources in schools, lack of knowledge. A lot of the problems are that teachers have not been well-trained to work with kids with severe reading problems. And so they may be doing exactly the best they can or all they've been taught to do, but it's not sufficient. So it's rarely a situation where, you know, there are bad guys and good guys. It's situations where

06:42

students' needs are not being met and sometimes it's very difficult to meet those needs. Sometimes it's things that should have been done and just lack of knowledge.  Right. You sort of end up, I guess, forcing the issue to the front that maybe needed to be taken. Sometimes there's a long time between,  we know we need to do something and then actually doing it because of, like you said, lack of resources.

07:10

the schools might have or teachers might have. So I'm curious how you got passionate about this type of work and about learning disabilities.  Well, growing up in Durham in the 40s and 50s, I was in a family of educators. One of my grandmothers was an educator. My mother was a librarian.  I had aunt that was an educator. I was brought up to really appreciate public schools. And in North Carolina, we were very proud of our public schools.

07:40

And I had a wonderful fifth grade teacher at Club Boulevard Elementary, which is a brand new school then,  and Ms. Terry, and she was just one of these loving,  caring teachers.  And I think it was her influence on me that led me in high school to decide that what I wanted to do was be a fifth grade teacher. And then I ended up

08:09

Going to undergraduate school of what then was women's college was women couldn't go to Chapel Hill as freshmen or sophomore back in the day.  So women's college was where a lot of women went, especially if they were interested in education. And I got a good basic education and elementary education, but there was no mention of special ed. And I ended up going to Duke for a master's program in special ed, which was very, very new field. And I was introduced to a little girl.

08:39

who was in the right school, WRIGHT, which still exists, and it was then brand new school for children with behavior problems. This little girl was in the third grade, and I was asked to work with her as a grad student because she couldn't read. And they assumed that because I had a degree in elementary education, I knew how to teach her to read.

09:04

And I realized very, very quickly that I had no clue how to teach a kid who struggled to read.  There was nothing in my background that prepared me for that. And I ended up working in several settings for children with multiple issues, behavior, emotional, and almost all of them also had learning issues, often related to reading. So I just over time realized that that's something that I needed to know how to do and ended up going.

09:34

back to school and learning more and just ended up doing it and becoming passionate about it. That's a really beautiful story. think what I'm hearing is you saw a need and you decided to try to fill that need to the best of your abilities. And I'm very, very thankful that I can still do that now. And I can give back to

10:05

families, sometimes it's not uncommon for parents to cry when after I've talked to them on the phone because they're so thankful for someone to listen and care about them and their children. And it's just a very, it's a very sad thing. I never had a child who had a learning disability personally, but when you have a child and they're not learning to read and you see how it's impacting them, it's very, very hard on parents and parents feel guilty.

10:35

They feel like they haven't done what they should do. Even if I can't help them,  which sometimes I can and sometimes I can't.  Just listening and appreciating their struggle and appreciating them for the effort they have put into trying to help their children is important. And I try to do that for teachers too, because they haven't,  most teachers are really trying to help kids. And when they aren't doing...

11:04

a great job. It's not because they don't want to.  So my teacher, spent about 20 years really working a lot in teacher training and helping teachers learn how, because they weren't taught at college and they still aren't taught as well at college as they need to be.  So that I'm very passionate about supporting teachers also.  Yeah. So you've already let it, the cat slip out of the bag a little bit. Or we did together that you grew up in Durham.

11:34

And since we're going to be talking about Alabama,  civil rights and race, could you talk about what your knowledge was or your understanding about race as you were growing up, what you observed or experienced around you? Sure. I did grow up in Durham. I stayed in Durham through high school. Okay. I lived in Durham until I went away to college.  And I was in a very, this is in, I was born in 43, so.

12:02

I was growing up in Durham, 40s, 50s. I was in a very middle-class family. We were not poor. We were not rich.  We never went hungry by any means.  And both grandparents lived here. So I had my grandparents that lived in the city of Durham and grandparents that lived out in the country. And we saw them every week and I grew up with a whole bunch of cousins.  so it was a, I think a very typical

12:33

growing up in Durham, but it was very insular. I mean, I had almost no contact with anybody that was different from me. Even white people that were different from me. I mean, I knew one Jewish family. So I didn't have a wide range of experience with people who were different. And literally, although my parents were very,  I don't know whether you'd call them progressive, but they certainly were not.

13:03

racist. I was taught to respect everybody, never say anything bad about anybody, but we lived in a very segregated situation. And literally, until I went away to college, I never had any contact with a person of color other than someone that would be in a subservient position. That just wasn't part of my...

13:31

experience at all. I I lived through the times with, you know, totally segregated schools,  segregated water fountains, segregated everything. So there was no connection. So I had very, not explicit, but implicit rules about race. And I can still remember, I must, I was in elementary school, but I don't know exactly how old, and there was a woman,

14:01

who, this was common for families that I knew, that a woman of color would come in once a week and help with ironing. For some reason, ironing was the task that people got up with.  this particular woman had been part of doing that for our family for years. And sometimes she would babysit for me.

14:28

If mother had to be gone, my mother wasn't working at that point in time. So I knew her quite well. And I can remember the day that I was home, it must have been a summer day, and she was there and it became time for lunch. And I remember realizing that we were sitting down at the kitchen table to eat and she was not. And I remember asking my mother,  why?

14:57

isn't Estelle eating with us?  And my mother said she would not feel comfortable. And that's really the first conscious realization that I had that there was something awry and something not right and didn't feel right to me. But our family never talked about it.  And when you said she, did your mother mean Estelle? Yes, she meant Estelle.

15:26

She's probably true because at that point she probably wouldn't have felt comfortable. Yeah. Um, uh, because it just wasn't done. So it sounds like,  you know, you said you think you absorbed implicit rules. Yes. Can you verbalize at all? What was the rule you absorbed? Well, I think the rule was that there's two kinds of people.  This was certainly never said, but it was clear that we, it was not a

15:55

appropriate for white people to interact as equals with black people. I don't know that I would have said that there's something inherently lesser about black people because I certainly never heard that from my parents. But I think subtly I must have thought that to some degree that there's a reason why we don't sit down and have dinner together or we don't go where they use a separate water fountain.

16:24

I mean, I've solved all those things.  There's like a, almost like an invisible fence that you can't see. Yeah. Yeah. And my church, I can remember as a teenager, Grace Baptist Church in Durham, which no longer exists as a congregation. I remember going to church one Sunday and there were beacons on the front steps. And I remember saying something to my parents about

16:52

you know, what's going on or something and being told that they were there in case that any black person tried to come to church. I'm thinking that I was, I was a teenager then, so I left in 61. So that probably was the very beginning of some of the civil rights issues. And I remember then thinking that's just wrong.  that was, that was, I didn't know anybody or any church, I couldn't even conceive of any church.

17:21

that would not do that until I got to college and saw a different reality.  Well, I'm going to ask you a question that I didn't send you in advance.  If this goes awry, we'll edit it. But I just want to try something because I've interviewed a couple other people from the group that grew up in the time of segregation.

17:50

But I'm curious then as you grew up with this invisible fence or just this knowledge that almost like there's two separate worlds and we only interact in this one way.  So what was it like then experiencing the desegregation and kind of seeing that fence crumble disappear?  Do you remember any instances where you noticed

18:18

Things are changing and they're, you know, I've seen the fence crumple somehow. Well, it's interesting, Lindsay, because I never saw that in Durham. When I left in 61, it was still completely segregated. Okay. My brother, who's three years younger than me, was in high school when segregation, integration began, but I left before any of that happened.  So my experience with a different type of society came

18:49

during college and then as a young adult. So I don't know what it would have been like to be part of, to live in Durham during that part. So I just didn't, didn't have that experience. Well, even if you weren't part of that experience, you said you were in different types of society. Things are usually, you're used to things being one way.  Um, and then you see something different. It can be a little jarring at first. My mom was in college where

19:16

were two things that happened. is that there were,  oh, women's college was pretty white at that point in time. But one of my roommates from my junior and senior year was very interested in foreign students for whatever reason.  And so at that point in time, if you were from a

19:45

If you were a person of color, whatever country you were from, Asian,  African, whatever,  often you would come and come want to come to the United States to go to school. This is, this was in, um, the beginning of sixties, the first half of sixties was my experience.  Then you went to traditionally black colleges. So there was a black college in Greensboro.

20:15

that had a large group of foreign students,  students from Africa, and then my roommate was particularly interested in Africa, and she ended up going with the Peace Corps to Africa.  we would go to Bennett College and interact with groups of students from Africa. And so they're, also a few students at Women's College.

20:44

So it was, we were peers and it was, it wasn't jarring in a way. was like, this is the way it should be.  All right. So how did you then hear about the pilgrimage and why did you decide to go?  Well, as a young adult, I got married in 1966 and my husband and I had several experiences with civil rights after he was in grad school.

21:14

And I participated in marches, got arrested, lived in East Harlem for a year,  did a lot of things that put me into contact with the civil rights movement and civil rights issues. So I had that experience as a young adult, but I realized over time how much I missed of what I could have been experiencing.

21:42

as a college student. Because I was a college student during the years that all the stuff happened that we were looking at on the pilgrimage.  I guess I probably felt guilty that I didn't do more when I was a student, a college student. I mean, I literally did not know what was going on. We were very insulated, but I have always felt like I missed out on something that I should have been doing. So when I heard about this pilgrimage and it covered those years that I've always felt

22:12

sad that I wasn't part of, I felt like that would be a good thing to do.  Well, you said you did some marches though. Were those related to race,  racial equity? Yes, but those were later. Those were later. They were like in 67, 68 is when we were living in Louisville and Martin Luther King's brother, A.D. King, came to Louisville and led a bunch of marches.

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And we went and lived in New York City and East Harlem for a year and were involved in stuff there. So, but those were all, I missed all those years of all the things that were happening that we heard about.  just, I felt like it was a way to, in some small way, experience those things that I had missed.

23:03

Definitely a unique reason that I haven't heard yet that you feel like you missed out on a time. I was kind of impressed that you did that much at the time.  the stuff I missed was the hard stuff. Yeah. It was when it was really dangerous. I see. And I don't know whether I would have... I'll never know. Right. Whether I would have been brave enough to do it or not.  I do wonder.

23:31

Because although we marched and we were arrested and spent a night in jail, I was never scared. It was never a situation like the people on the Edmund Pettus Bridge had. Those people were, that was a whole different, qualitatively different experience than what it was in the later sixties.

23:56

So by the time you were doing, you did stuff you feel like it was more acceptable or safer to do that wouldn't be as dangerous. Yes. I never was fearful for my life.  There were people throwing things at us,  but in the police when they arrested us were not pleasant, but they didn't hurt anybody. never saw anybody. I never saw any of the things like happened in Salman.

24:25

Montgomery and those the Children's March. I just I didn't even know about them then really not in depth I learned about them more later. Okay, and so we had these meetings to prepare for the pilgrimage which You know, there were two meetings I feel like and then and then we were there getting on the bus So what were your thoughts as you boarded the bus with all of your stuff? I was really

24:54

pleased that the group was such a nice mixture. Cause honestly,  that's the most time I have spent around other black people who are, you know, some of them my age,  around about, just still,  Lindsay live in a pretty white world.  And I was, I was really pleased that

25:22

I was going to get a chance to interact and maybe get to know at a different level people whose whose background was very different from me in terms of going up white or going up black. And some of those people were from Durham. So that was exciting to me. And that actually was one of the best things about the the whole event to me.

25:48

But were you feeling any apprehensions at all about the trip or was it all enthusiasm and excitement and starry-eyed? I was not apprehensive at all about it.  I mean, partly because I know the people that were leading it. I had gotten to know them at church and I knew that they would do a good job, but I had no apprehension at all. Okay. Great.

26:13

So I guess then that leads nicely into the next question. I was curious if you already knew anyone in the group, you know, before you got on that bus. I mean, besides the meetings, you know, did you know people that were going on the trip outside of that experience? I need three people. I knew the two leaders,  Rosalie and Frank, and I knew the woman that I was rooming with.

26:43

I think that made it a lot easier. I did not know her well. I mean, we had met each other at church and liked each other, but I'd never done anything outside of church with her. But I mean, I felt like we would be compatible.  So, but I very comfortable from the very beginning with that group.  and this was your first time going on the pilgrimage, correct?  Yes. Okay. So what was the pilgrimage like for you?

27:10

And this is where we can start talking about specific experiences and any highlights you had. Well, the entire thing was very emotional in that I really felt like I was part of something, but yet not part of it.  It heightened my wishes that I had been more part of it. I was glad that I was feeling that way.  One of the things that I really enjoyed that I didn't even know was going to be a part of was the Lincoln School visit.

27:40

As an educator, I'm always very interested in schools. And I just didn't know that part of black history. I knew that there had been schools along the way, but I just didn't know that history at all. And the fact that the school, were so intent upon educating their students and continued that no matter what the adversity, how hard it was.  And was so such an integral part of the community.

28:09

I was, I was really impressed by the ladies that talked to us and trying to think about what it would have been back then to keep that going and to keep teaching kids that nobody thought deserved to be taught.  That was very meaningful.  for the, for the listeners, can you talk a little bit more about the school, what it was and what you saw and experienced visiting it? Well, it was a school for black students that was run by

28:38

other black people because there was no schooling for black students. I don't remember the year that it started, but it had been going on a long, long time. And it was part of a small community and the building that had been in for many, many years, of course the school was no longer in existence, but the building was still there. And there were women there who had

29:06

been part of the school in one way or another, and they were determined to keep that memory alive of what it meant to try to educate, to provide education for people that weren't supposed to be educated.  Yeah. I liked that school too.  One of the things that stuck out to me is they shared that both black and white citizens raised the money for the school. Yes.

29:36

And I also liked knowing that the,  was in Marion, Marion, Alabama was the location.  it was, it's sort of, in a way the school didn't make sense to me when I was there, because I was like, why are we here? What does this have to do with anything? And then the next day when you visit Marion, that you realize that many of the students that went to this, went to the Lincoln school.

30:06

They were trained to be in leadership and being an outstanding citizen.  And here they grew up and they get this opportunity to, to march and to, to make this statement about we're here and we deserve to be able to vote and shop and live in this world just like you. And I liked knowing that at, um, you know, perhaps because they went to the Lincoln school.

30:36

they had the courage to do that. Yes, that's a that's a different way to think about it. And I think that's absolutely true when you educate people. Part of that is giving them the understanding that they can do things that they didn't think they were able to do. It's empowering.  And I think that's why there is such a focus. Of course, everybody wants to see their kids get a good education, but I think for

31:04

marginalized communities, for people who are not represented well in the culture, education becomes almost even more important. It's like it's how you get a passport to be able for better opportunities, more opportunities.  So you're absolutely correct. And that's a neat tie in that education is so important to you as well.  Okay, well, what else do you want to?

31:32

Well, everything was meaningful. But one of the things that really I will never forget, was, I think it's the Memorial for Peace and Justice is the one where they have the things with lynchings on it. believe that's the name of it where you walk through and there are these like slabs that come down from the ceiling and they're by state.  They're the names of people who've been lynched.

32:02

And one of the families,  a mother and her two sons who were on the pilgrimage, I just happened to be walking through this very large exhibit, going down the North Carolina, you know, line,  and happened to be by their side when the mother found the plaque tribute to a relative.

32:30

an ancestor of theirs. She knew it was there. She had been on the pilgrimage before.  She was looking to find it to show to her two sons. And to me, to be able to be in that same space with that family was just very, it was uplifting and sad at the same time because

33:00

no one should have to have her relatives be lynched because of their color.  But yet it was uplifting and hopeful that here's a mother wanting to share that experience and she shared with us at other times on the trip later that she had really never been able to talk about those early memories before with her sons. And so it was hopeful in that perhaps healing can happen when we

33:29

share those experiences together and recognize the pain and then try to move on and work toward never having that happen again.  Then there's a whole legacy museum which is like so mind-boggling that I'm sure everybody's wanting to talk about that but I found myself thinking if I could dictate that every person in this country had to have one experience together and then talk about it

33:59

It would be going to the legacy museum.  Cause I found out.  Yeah. Talk about you. Several people have talked about it, but you can share your experience, which may speak in a different way to the listeners. So don't feel like, you know, you can't share about the legacy museum and what stood out to you. What were your feelings going through there? Well, it was overwhelming really. The first, the first exhibit with the.

34:29

ocean and the heads of people in the waters depicting the trip over. That was probably one of the most visceral emotional experiences I've ever gone through in a situation like that. I mean, it was just, if I had experienced nothing else but that initial display and words don't do it.

34:57

any justice, but it was just the pain that those people suffered on those trips over. And the reasons that my ancestors, that I know my ancestors were the ones that did it to them in a general sense,  was overwhelming. The other thing that I found very, very powerful was the part of the museum where you had people, I guess a hologram.

35:26

where people were in prison and you sat down and talked to them and heard their story. That was very meaningful. And then to find out afterwards that each of those individuals was actually a real person who's actually subsequently out of prison and trying to make the world a better place. It was overall distressing.

35:56

sad, but hopeful.  What did you find hopeful about it? Well, hopeful that so many people wanted to experience it because it's a very,  people all over and it's a very popular thing. I understood that they're even thinking about expanding. I know it took a lot of work to get it, took a lot of people to make it happen. So that was hopeful. But the idea of those people in prison who incarcerated

36:25

who could then move on and continue their lives and become, find ways to help other people was very helpful to me. That we're not forgetting, that we're remembering. Yeah. I guess, yeah, the fact that other people,  other people, our group was there obviously, but also other people were there as well. That's why you have to queue up and enter at a specific time because

36:52

It is so popular. was so remarkable about that is you almost feel like you're underwater and they have the heads of,  and in some cases bodies of like,  of different ages of people.  So small children, women, men, teenagers. And I don't know if you saw the video about the man who made the heads, but he crafted them to

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mimic real people in, don't remember where they were from, but it was from the same area where those people would have come from.  And so he modeled those faces on real people.  for me, as I was there in that section, which I agree was very powerful, I see one small child's head and I was thinking that child is the same age. He looks

37:52

similar to my nephew. You know, I'm like, my nephew is six.  This is a picture of a six-year-old child and how would you feel if that was your nephew? You know, so the museum really kind of confronts you on the terribleness of it in a way that is different than, of course, you read about it in books, you hear about it, it's terrible. Even seeing movies, it's just a different way to experience the story in a way that

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doesn't allow you to look away. I agree.  It's really something I want my family to experience it. I want people that I care about to experience it. Were there any other moments from the pilgrimage you want to talk specifically about? I think that's the highlights for me.  Going across the Edmund Pettus Bridge was meaningful.

38:51

but not as powerful as the Legacy Museum. That was the most powerful part, for sure, that and the lynching experience. So the partnership who puts on this pilgrimage is a Christ-centered organization, although there anybody can come. Just being Christian, is that part of your identity as well? And if so, where was Christ in the journey for you? Christianity has been and is still a very big part of my life.

39:21

always been part of an established church. My view of Christianity has changed dramatically over the years and I think is still evolving. But for me, the pilgrimage was another way to experience how I think we as Christians and as just a person of God, whether we're a Christian or not, it's how we are intending to

39:50

interact in the world, to be part of where people are hurting and where bad things are happening. That's where we're supposed to be as, as people of God. So for me, it was just a real affirmation of the fact that a lot of that whole civil rights movement was primarily church people. And that was certainly my reason for doing that when I was a participant. So just a continuation of.

40:20

the whole journey of realizing how to be a Christian in this world.  you've been on the pilgrimage, you've now come home. It's been three months just about since we returned. So did anything change for you as a result of going?  Have you planned steps or other things you want to do as an extension of that journey?  Or where do you go from here after having

40:50

such a moving experience? Well, part of where I go is sharing that with other people and encouraging other people to do that. I also took part in the six-week study with other Mount Level people that looked at the letters from Birmingham jail, and that was very meaningful since I had just never studied that document.  And hearing different people talk about it, that was very meaningful.

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And I'm encouraging and working in my church with ways that we can work more with Mount Level. I took part in the Pentecost experience, which was a year I you were there.  And so I'm trying to do more and encourage our church to do more with other churches of faith and not just worship services, but really take action. We're talking about

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right now, trying to figure out how we can participate in the Poor People's effort and all of that work that's going on with Reverend Barber's public policy group out of Yale and the concerns about Christian nationalism. Trying to think about how I personally can be a voice and how our church can be a part of a voice in Durham and in North Carolina. So it's made me more determined to be

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active.  I'm more inclined than ever to not spend time on things that aren't important, but to stay working on the things that really matter. There are a lot of things going on in this world right now that are important.  So that's what I'm going to do as long as I can.  So overall, what do you think the benefits are of going on the pilgrimage? I think it expands your understanding of

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our history, as well as an understanding of where we are looking into our future as a country. I think it helps every person that participates. I can't imagine this not happening, that there's a growth of compassion.  And I would think for most people, it would lead to an increase in determination to try to be part of a solution, to try to make the world.

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to realize that we've not come as far as we thought we had, but there's still hope and that we all need to work together and that we're all the same people inside.  Well, that's it. That's all the questions I have, unless there's anything you wanted to share that I didn't ask you about.  You did a very good job of choosing questions and I thank you very much.

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Okay, folks, well, we're closing up this episode of 1 of My Stories.  I encourage you to listen to all of the stories that are from the Alabama pilgrimage. It's going to be a whole series. And thank you so much for your attention. Thank you, Rebecca. And good night, everybody.